4 ms·

Charity is a nice idea, but when people are paying their taxes, and seeing trillions wasted in Afghanistan and Iraq, boondoggles like the F-35 and the LCS, and

by M_Grey 10y ago

Charity is a nice idea, but when people are paying their taxes, and seeing trillions wasted in Afghanistan and Iraq, boondoggles like the F-35 and the LCS, and even to an extent the Zumwalt, they might have a right to speculate that their charity or lack thereof is not the primary issue. Then they might look at the state of healthcare in this country, and how a combination of bought politicians, insurance, and some particularly greedy pharmaceutical companies cough albuterol cough Mylan cough and realize that the problem is bigger than a spirit of pooling resources. We already pool our resources, then those resources are wasted. That's the problem.

gavanwoolery 10y ago
good points :)
- M_Grey 10y ago
  Thanks, I respect the points you're making about charity, and especially about the need to start somewhere (i.e. with ourselves), but we shouldn't lose sight of the enormous and unconscionable waste much of what we already give with that in mind is subject to.
BadassFractal 10y ago
Thanks for pointing that out, I've come to similar conclusions myself as well. As someone who lives in the city and has paid six figures in taxes last year, I also wonder if people not contributing enough to the pool is really the problem. To me it seems that the culprit is mismanagement of the funds that are generated by taxpayers every year. How much more should I be spending as a taxpayer to improve the situation?
- M_Grey 10y ago
  It's a crazy and infuriating situation, when we're essentially forced to pay into a common fund which we then watch be grossly misused. I'm honestly not sure how much more an individual can do; this strikes me as an issue that educated voters have to come together on. Of course then it becomes ever so clear as to why the drive to make sure that voters are often not educated has been so intense during the same period of this mismanagement.
  - gavanwoolery 10y ago
    Education is only part of it. I think that we are all generally aware there is some abuse of the budget, but the greater enemy IMO is apathy and/or feeling powerless to change our current situation.
- cinquemb 10y ago
  Who knows, maybe one day we can have the BOJ pay the IRS on your behalf?
reid_fatman 10y ago
Californians goose-step to the ballot box to make _other people_ pay taxes. 99.9% of Californians don't pay the "mental health" tax, for example. Only people with incomes over $1MM/year pay that. If Californians really wanted to help homeless people, and not punish the most productive people in society, they would have passed a ballot proposition where _everyone_ has to pay for public mental health services. (See CA prop 63 http://www.dhcs.ca.gov/services/mh/Pages/MH_Prop63.aspx http://www.dhcs.ca.gov/services/mh/Pages/MH_Prop63.aspx ) The people I knew who supported this really didn't care where the money went. If they could have voted to take money from productive people and have it shredded they would have.
someguydave 10y ago
Unlike voluntary charity, government "charity" does not come with the discipline of the donors. That is, money comes in whether it is wasted or not. In a voluntary charity there is clear responsibility to the donors.

by M_Grey 10y ago

gavanwoolery 10y ago

good points :)

M_Grey 10y ago
Thanks, I respect the points you're making about charity, and especially about the need to start somewhere (i.e. with ourselves), but we shouldn't lose sight of the enormous and unconscionable waste much of what we already give with that in mind is subject to.

BadassFractal 10y ago

Thanks for pointing that out, I've come to similar conclusions myself as well. As someone who lives in the city and has paid six figures in taxes last year, I also wonder if people not contributing enough to the pool is really the problem. To me it seems that the culprit is mismanagement of the funds that are generated by taxpayers every year. How much more should I be spending as a taxpayer to improve the situation?

M_Grey 10y ago
It's a crazy and infuriating situation, when we're essentially forced to pay into a common fund which we then watch be grossly misused. I'm honestly not sure how much more an individual can do; this strikes me as an issue that educated voters have to come together on. Of course then it becomes ever so clear as to why the drive to make sure that voters are often not educated has been so intense during the same period of this mismanagement.
- gavanwoolery 10y ago
  Education is only part of it. I think that we are all generally aware there is some abuse of the budget, but the greater enemy IMO is apathy and/or feeling powerless to change our current situation.
cinquemb 10y ago
Who knows, maybe one day we can have the BOJ pay the IRS on your behalf?

reid_fatman 10y ago

Californians goose-step to the ballot box to make _other people_ pay taxes. 99.9% of Californians don't pay the "mental health" tax, for example. Only people with incomes over $1MM/year pay that. If Californians really wanted to help homeless people, and not punish the most productive people in society, they would have passed a ballot proposition where _everyone_ has to pay for public mental health services. (See CA prop 63 http://www.dhcs.ca.gov/services/mh/Pages/MH_Prop63.aspx http://www.dhcs.ca.gov/services/mh/Pages/MH_Prop63.aspx ) The people I knew who supported this really didn't care where the money went. If they could have voted to take money from productive people and have it shredded they would have.

someguydave 10y ago

Unlike voluntary charity, government "charity" does not come with the discipline of the donors. That is, money comes in whether it is wasted or not. In a voluntary charity there is clear responsibility to the donors.