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No but people would say they food they give away should still comply with health regulations. Just because you're making a gift doesn't mean the law doesn't ap

by bonaldi 10y ago

No but people would say they food they give away should still comply with health regulations. Just because you're making a gift doesn't mean the law doesn't apply to you.

crazy2be 10y ago
That's not a good comparison, not complying with health regulations substantially devalues the food given away, because of the significantly increased risk of illness resulting from consumption of said food. Your second statement is irrelevant, we are not talking about what the law does, but what the law should do. And I absolutely think that gifts (and good samaritan acts in general) should be held to a much lower standard than commercial enterprises. This is not at all unprecedented in US law (or in many places in the world), every state has some form of good samaritan law[1], which protects (to some extent) individuals who act in good faith to aid strangers in need of immediate medical assistance. There is also a federal law indemnifying donors of properly labeled foods, except in the case of gross negligence or intentional misconduct. These laws are important, because donations result in no benefit for the bearer, so making them cost money is a significant deterrence to charity. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law#United_Stat...
- bonaldi 10y ago
  What does it matter in your scheme if the food being given away is substantially devalued? It's a gift, it should be held to a lower standard, right? Or are you saying that the gift must be of an equal value to that sold? Do they have to also serve it on fine china to the homeless? How low should the lowered standard be, then? My second statement is disagreeing with yours. The law does and should absolutely hold organisational gifts to the same standard as commercial transactions. Not least because otherwise you create a massive loophole ripe for exploitation, at all levels. "Hey, don't tax my import, it was a gift!". "Hey, my formula milk shouldn't be subject to marketing laws, it's a gift to new [and ill-educated] mothers!" "Hey, I shouldn't be subject to your weird license restrictions, my source code was a gift to the community!" Now, sure, good samaritan laws are important things. But so is equality legislation, and disability rights legislation, and much of the other legislation that defines the standards society expects of its participants.
josinalvo 10y ago
Should it, though? I mean, if you want to impose costs (check carefully food, possibility of lawsuit) on a donation, what you get, predictably, is less donations. It seems to be the case that you have an assymetrical view of harm: harm by not giving food is always acceptable, harm by giving food, usually unacceptable. Why would it be the case?
- bonaldi 10y ago
  Yes, it should. What you get is arguably fewer donations, but the donations you get are better donations. You raise the standard. And others want to follow suit, so they up their game too. This is already happening. UK supermarkets used to lock their bins to stop people stealing waste food because they were concerned they'd be liable for health violations. There were public protests, so they raised their games and began properly managed waste-food donation programmes. It's asymmetrical because it's bigger than the one donation you have before you. When you look at the big picture, you have to say sometimes "this thing isn't good enough. Even though it might hurt society in the short term to refuse it, it will hurt it more in the long-term to accept it. So we refuse."

by bonaldi 10y ago

No but people would say they food they give away should still comply with health regulations. Just because you're making a gift doesn't mean the law doesn't apply to you.

crazy2be 10y ago

That's not a good comparison, not complying with health regulations substantially devalues the food given away, because of the significantly increased risk of illness resulting from consumption of said food. Your second statement is irrelevant, we are not talking about what the law does, but what the law should do. And I absolutely think that gifts (and good samaritan acts in general) should be held to a much lower standard than commercial enterprises. This is not at all unprecedented in US law (or in many places in the world), every state has some form of good samaritan law[1], which protects (to some extent) individuals who act in good faith to aid strangers in need of immediate medical assistance. There is also a federal law indemnifying donors of properly labeled foods, except in the case of gross negligence or intentional misconduct. These laws are important, because donations result in no benefit for the bearer, so making them cost money is a significant deterrence to charity. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law#United_Stat...

bonaldi 10y ago
What does it matter in your scheme if the food being given away is substantially devalued? It's a gift, it should be held to a lower standard, right? Or are you saying that the gift must be of an equal value to that sold? Do they have to also serve it on fine china to the homeless? How low should the lowered standard be, then? My second statement is disagreeing with yours. The law does and should absolutely hold organisational gifts to the same standard as commercial transactions. Not least because otherwise you create a massive loophole ripe for exploitation, at all levels. "Hey, don't tax my import, it was a gift!". "Hey, my formula milk shouldn't be subject to marketing laws, it's a gift to new [and ill-educated] mothers!" "Hey, I shouldn't be subject to your weird license restrictions, my source code was a gift to the community!" Now, sure, good samaritan laws are important things. But so is equality legislation, and disability rights legislation, and much of the other legislation that defines the standards society expects of its participants.

josinalvo 10y ago

Should it, though? I mean, if you want to impose costs (check carefully food, possibility of lawsuit) on a donation, what you get, predictably, is less donations. It seems to be the case that you have an assymetrical view of harm: harm by not giving food is always acceptable, harm by giving food, usually unacceptable. Why would it be the case?

bonaldi 10y ago
Yes, it should. What you get is arguably fewer donations, but the donations you get are better donations. You raise the standard. And others want to follow suit, so they up their game too. This is already happening. UK supermarkets used to lock their bins to stop people stealing waste food because they were concerned they'd be liable for health violations. There were public protests, so they raised their games and began properly managed waste-food donation programmes. It's asymmetrical because it's bigger than the one donation you have before you. When you look at the big picture, you have to say sometimes "this thing isn't good enough. Even though it might hurt society in the short term to refuse it, it will hurt it more in the long-term to accept it. So we refuse."