11 ms·

In India, a Rich Food Culture Vanishes from the Train Tracks

190 points by kposehn 10y ago

rayiner 10y ago
Sounds . . . pungent. I used to take the Amtrak every day from Union Station in DC to Penn Station in Baltimore. Friday evening trains were always full of people who brought dinner onboard. The food smells were awful--there is a reason Amtrak's Cafe Car only sells bland food. Being in a train without air conditioning and the smell of curry permeating the air sounds like my own personal hell.
- zepto 10y ago
  You could bring a gas mask. That way other people could enjoy their food without you having to be bothered.
- madengr 10y ago
  To each their own I suppose. I love the smell of curry permeating the air. Now BO on the other hand.... Anyway, good read.
  - dsfyu404ed 10y ago
    This. A train line could probably increase ridership if they could guarantee that the train will always smell like strongly seasoned food.
- deanCommie 10y ago
  India overall is a very fragrant country. That's the word I would choose that is more neutral/positive compared to "pungent". It sounds like you have a very sensitive sense of smell and you would not do well in India. But for others - if the point of travel is to have new and novel experiences, and your senses being the primary entry point for experiences, India is the most intense sensory experience I've ever had - the smells, the sounds, and the sights all combine to overwhelm. As would be expected with a developing country of over a billion people, not all sensory interactions are positive, but with the bad comes far more good, and a worthwhile distinct experience.
  - rayiner 10y ago
    > But for others - if the point of travel is to have new and novel experiences, and your senses being the primary entry point for experiences, India is the most intense sensory experience I've ever had - the smells, the sounds, and the sights all combine to overwhelm. Sounds like something a westerner visiting India would say. For people from there (my family is from nearby Bangladesh), a train is just a way to get to a business meeting or to visit family. I don't imagine Indian commuters--in general--appreciate the food smells any more than American commuters do (it's always the vacationers who bring smelly food onto the Amtrak, not the regular commuters or business travelers). In fact I'd wager that's why the "rich food culture" of the trains has "vanished." What the author sees as the lamentable loss of some cultural phenomenon, most Indians probably see as a laudable step toward modern comforts.
    - webtechgal 10y ago
      > In fact I'd wager that's why the "rich food culture" of the trains has "vanished." Not by a long shot. Reduced? Certainly. Vanished? Certainly not. I think the author of the OP is writing based on her limited experience, with the Mumbai chef also chiming in under a similar condition. > most Indians probably see as a laudable step toward modern comforts. I don't think so. Some? May be. Most? Doubtful.
    - pavanred 10y ago
      "...most Indians probably see this as a laudable step toward modern comforts...", a comment from someone who is not an Indian, while I see a few following comments by Indians (seemingly) who fondly reminisced about the experience. Its funny, the conviction that over a billion people of a different country/culture would see the world like you would. Besides, "modern comforts" are there for the taking if one wants it. One can always travel first class in these trains, where you have multiple tiers to choose from ranging from air conditioned private cabins to A/C car coaches. Otherwise, you can travel the other classes and tiers where you get a chance to explore what is talked about in the article. To each his/her own. Edit: I think the author is speaking about the experience in the cheapest 2 classes of Indian railways. Here are the fare class codes in Indian Railways [0]. There are at least 6-7 other tiers of fare classes above these. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Railways_coaching_stock#Accommodation_Types https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Railways_coaching_stock...
- rvenkatesh25 10y ago
  Haha.. the brilliance of the "staple" article can only be realized by nostalgia. If you've experienced what she said - in India, in your childhood, among the then open-and-freely-mingling people - you would not compare it to a DC to Baltimore ride. Or any train ride in the Western world. I personally related to every bit of that article. Used to go from Ahmedabad in Gujarat, to Chennai - in Navjeevan express that takes 36 hours, every other summer. Thanks to this author, I just relived that memory :)
- AstroJetson 10y ago
  Used to do DC to Wilmington. My travel companion and I never noticed the dinners. But we had one of those little travel mini-bars with two martini glasses and a shaker with room for some cheese and crackers. We traveled home in style.
- rconti 10y ago
  I cannot fathom why some people are so annoyed by the smell of food, which is of course a necessity of life. It seems like the kind of thing people CHOOSE to be annoyed by because of some imagined sense of politeness. Regardless, I suspect if you were in train packed full of people from various socioeconomic backgrounds on a hot day, the smell of food would be the LEAST offensive scent on offer.
  - bogomipz 10y ago
    Really? It's annoying because you are captive. Have you not been on a plane and people near you take out their Kentucky Fried Chicken or McDonalds? You can't exactly open the window. That doesn't bother you in the least? Most people don't find the smell of fast food in close quarters enjoyable.
    - rconti 10y ago
      Not at all. Maybe if I'm hungry it makes me more hungry. And then they eat it and it's gone in a few minutes. I don't know where you got your "most people" supposition from.
  - oh_sigh 10y ago
    Are you ever annoyed if someone is blasting music you don't like on a train?
    - rconti 10y ago
      Sure, although I don't consider music a necessity of life. I find the smell of certain things, like old cooked broccoli or kale, to make me want to vomit. But if a passenger on the train was eating it, I don't think it would disturb me nearly as much as endless music that interrupts my concentration. I don't see how these are in the same boat, even though the music is merely annoying and the smell of putrid greens makes me want to vomit.
      - oh_sigh 10y ago
        Food on a train isn't a necessity of life either. You aren't going to starve to death if you can't eat your fish and broccoli on the train. Constantly feeling the urge to vomit doesn't disturb your concentration, but music does? I'm confused how you can't see the commonalities between the two examples. In both cases, a person does something which disrupts many people in a shared space.
- lake99 10y ago
  > Being in a train without air conditioning... I can almost guarantee that if you're traveling in a non-AC compartment in India, the windows stay open. People only close them before sleeping at night, because when trains invariably stop at its scheduled stations, the passengers don't want to run the risk of thieves grabbing valuables through windows. There are some smells of certain cuisines that I absolutely detest (fish curry, garlic, etc.) but I can't recall ever being bothered by the smell of food in these compartments. I can recall being bothered by the smell of diesel fumes if the car happened to be close to the front. What drove me quite mad was this, "all culminating in a boisterous game of cards or round of antakshari". Ear plugs don't help much.
- parennoob 10y ago
  > Being in a train without air conditioning Western and Indian trains without air conditioning aren't the same -- in the Indian ones (at least 2nd AC and below) the windows can be opened, and often are. The wind blows away everything but the faintest aroma of cooking food.
whack 10y ago
She held out a plate to me, which I shyly refused. Go on, she urged me. "Food is never food unless you share it with others, no?" she said. I accepted and found love at first bite. I also remember a hearty Punjabi woman we met on another trip. She sighed at my mother's humble offering of idlis. "I can never make such soft idlis at home," she said, as I bit into her fragrant alu paratha (a flaky, potato-stuffed Indian bread), wondering why anyone who could eat such manna every day would ever want an idli. These food exchanges would invariably extend into detailed introductions, exchange of family histories, discovery of common acquaintances, all culminating in a boisterous game of cards or round of antakshari (contest of Hindi movie songs) and a final promise to keep in touch. There's something very beautiful about complete strangers interacting and engaging deeply with one another, free of any selfish desires besides that of companionship. There are many things I love about today's world, but that sense of camaraderie does seem diminished these days.
- witty_username 10y ago
  > sense of camaraderie does seem diminished these days Why do you think this?
  - netsharc 10y ago
    To pick an easy target, smartphones mean you can travel for 3 months and still talk to your hometown friend every 5 minutes. Everyone is sharing their moments with their e-friends, instead of with others actually living that moment too.
    - witty_username 10y ago
      How is using a smartphone not actually living?
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sandGorgon 10y ago
No it's not vanishing . This food is part of our culture. It still exists in the city... And is now reinvented to be kitsch [1] [1] http://www.finelychopped.net/2015/11/why-breakfast-at-khar-social-makes-us.html?m=1 http://www.finelychopped.net/2015/11/why-breakfast-at-khar-s...
thr0waway1239 10y ago
The title is a bit misleading - I thought salt was the food which was being described as vanishing :-) I am not going to disagree with any of the other commenters. (After all, it has been said that everything you think is true about India - the exact opposite is also true somewhere in India) The question of trust is an important one, maybe even more than the issue of an economy which is developing (and hence making people more insular) - people on HN may not be aware, but there was a time (admittedly quite a few years ago) when there would be literally a news article every single day about the "biscuit bandits"- people who offered drugged cookies, which are usually called biscuits in India, and made off with the victims' valuables. I just searched online for "biscuit bandits" and found this ironic story - although I don't know if it is true. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chennai/CBI-inspector-falls-prey-to-biscuit-bandits/articleshow/4849921.cms http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chennai/CBI-inspecto... CBI is like the Indian FBI. (edit: Changed funny to ironic. To answer webtechgal, I meant funny in an ironic sense. The problem had been going on for many years when this person who worked in law enforcement was victimized. If it is possible to dupe law enforcement in this way, one can only imagine how challenging it is for the regular folks)
- webtechgal 10y ago
  > ...and found this funny story... No offense, but if you were at the receiving end of things, you probably won't find it funny. This (the 'biscuit bandit' thing - though I'm reading it described thus for the first time), has been a menace plaguing gullible travelers on India trains for many years now. With millions of people traveling each day on thousands of routes across the length and breadth of the country, it is happy hunting grounds for the culprits. In some cases, people end up losing their life savings. Sad, shocking, but true all the same, even today.
- dang 10y ago
  > The title is a bit misleading - I thought salt was the food Yes, websites that append their branding slugs to article titles are a bit of a pain. We've got a list of them that get removed automatically but I'm not sure if NPR's food blog rates an inclusion. Edit: once a year is often enough. Added. https://hn.algolia.com/?query=npr%20salt&sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=story&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0 https://hn.algolia.com/?query=npr%20salt&sort=byDate&dateRan...
deanCommie 10y ago
Every western country went through a similar transition in the last 20 years with a generation remembering the days when kids would bike to their friends house, people knew each other in neighborhoods even in large cities, and communities just felt tighter. It remains to be seen whether this is reversible and we can still bring it back, whether we actually replaced it with something better (replacing few strong social bonds with many more weaker bonds), or even whether it's just artificial nostalgia that ignores the poverty, discrimination and segregation of the past.
- CalRobert 10y ago
  I biked to my friend's houses when I was a kid, but any more it seems like the suburbs are just too spread out to make that practical for a lot of kids. The traffic is also fast-moving and unaccustomed to looking for road users who aren't also in cars.
  - DashRattlesnake 10y ago
    Suburbs also used to have sidewalks, which made it easier and safer for younger children to explore a little. It just seems so bizarre to me to see newer ones with either sidewalks only on one side or the street or no sidewalks at all. I remember being very young and forbidden from crossing the street, but I pretty much had free reign of the sidewalk on the block I lived on.
yalogin 10y ago
That is something sorely missing in the US. People don't want to talk to someone they don't know. Or may be just not to me :)
- jccalhoun 10y ago
  Maybe there's something about me then because I hate it when strangers try to talk to me on a plane or in line (I'm in the midwest of the USA so no so much train riding going on here). Maybe it is cultural, maybe it is because I'm an only child, maybe it is genetic, or some combination of all of them (probably) but this article sounds like a nightmare to me. I don't want to hear about your kids. I don't want to hear about your favorite sports team. I don't want to hear about your political views.
- bogomipz 10y ago
  Thats patently untrue. The US is actually very big on small talk and causal chatter. You can't really make a blanket statement about a country the size of the US. New Yorkers will strike up a conversation with total stranger without thinking twice. In the deep south it would be considered rude to not say hello if you were passing someone on your block or street.
  - vinay427 10y ago
    This reminds me of my flight returning from San Jose, CA to the upper Midwest, my current home. Within a few moments of my choosing an aisle seat, someone (who I later found out was from my hometown) joined me in the neighboring middle seat and immediately struck up a conversation. It was about his recommendation of a book I had in my lap that he had previously read. It was then that I realized this type of occurrence hadn't happened throughout the time I was in CA, and was a welcome reminder of home. Perhaps it was just coincidence that a stranger confronted me on my flight home, but I certainly have perceived people here to be a good deal more willing to talk to strangers and seemingly less aloof.
rconti 10y ago
More generally, the Friedman-esque "flattening" of the world has made a lot of things less special. It wasn't immediately obvious to me what we were losing at the time, but I now have a certain nostalgia for a time, just a couple short decades ago, when you could find things in your travels (foreign and domestic) that you couldn't simply order online or, at least, find on eBay. Souvenirs make so much less sense and feel so much less special when you don't need to travel to get them. Of course, I do not view the past with such rose-colored glasses that I cannot understand that these goods have a wider market than ever and are accessible (both in terms of affordability and physical access) to more people than ever. The businessperson in a small village somewhere sure isn't sad that their market has become effectively infinite. After all, many lament the bygone day of air travel when seats were comfortable and service excellent without realizing that they, like me, would not have been able to afford to travel by air at all 50 years ago. To bring it full circle, it sounds like the author is recognizing that, while that world of nostalgia is lost to her as she is now able to travel by air due to increasing wealth, so too a poorer generation of Indians is now able to afford to travel by train (home-cooked meals or not) when before they could not travel at all.
- CalRobert 10y ago
  It does feel weird to see that the world's souvenirs are largely made in China. I like my lamps I bought in Istanbul, but I could have bought not just a similar lamp, but quite possibly an identical one, online.
  - csydas 10y ago
    While these issues are in part true, I think part of what maintains the allure of still going abroad or at least away from your current city is the discovery of what you want. Everything on the planet may just be a few clicks and a credit card away, but there are lots of things you don't realize you want because you didn't know they existed. Going and experiencing other cultures can help shape this. For a simple example, I never knew I wanted a cezve until I went to a place where they were more commonly used. Can I buy a cezve in the US? Absolutely, but I likely wouldn't have since the odds of someone using one to make coffee in the US is far lower. That's just a minor example, but it's representative of the allure that travel can still bring and what it ultimately brings - the chance to see and find things you didn't know about before. Souvenirs that aren't from shops labeled "Souvenir" still are usually much more unique and difficult to acquire without actually going to the source, and even the same activities just done with a different mindset or with a different cultural attitude can make all the difference.
webtechgal 10y ago
I think this whole article is a click-bait or over sensationalism. The culture that the author alludes to, authoritatively declaring it to have 'vanished', has not vanished by a long shot. If one were to take ten random train trips longer than 6 to 8 hours each, I bet not one will turn out to be sans signs of the rich food culture. In all probability, it has reduced, but certainly not vanished.
- lake99 10y ago
  > authoritatively declaring it to have 'vanished', has not vanished by a long shot. I agree with you completely. Indians are quite guilty of giving really weird ideas of India to outsiders. I mean, the culture is vastly different from western culture, as it is, but adding a thick layer of nostalgia or romanticism will only make their expectations more fantastical.
  - angry_octet 10y ago
    It is pretty clear that the middle classes rarely take long train journeys any more. Poor people tend to be traveling for work rather than for holidays. So inevitability there are more individual travelers than families and people are (wisely) more cautious.
    - lake99 10y ago
      The phrase "middle class" is misleading here[1]. If you are talking about people with IT industry jobs, they certainly have enough disposable income to spend on flights or cars. Even lower income migrants travel home for major holidays, much like the author herself did when she was young. [1] http://qz.com/578793/indias-middle-class-is-almost-impossible-to-define/ http://qz.com/578793/indias-middle-class-is-almost-impossibl...
- sterex 10y ago
  I agree too. Whenever we travel as a (big) family by train, we ALWAYS pack food! And everyone brings a delicacy that makes up the feast!
known 10y ago
http://foodnetindia.in/whats-in-your-food/ http://foodnetindia.in/whats-in-your-food/
s3arch 10y ago
>In my childhood days, we could walk up to any house on the street in the middle of a cricket game and demand water. Often we would get rose sherbet or lemonade instead of plain water. Oh how much I miss those days....
suyash 10y ago
This will give you a better idea of what it was like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI_47ru03Z8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI_47ru03Z8
shafiqissani 10y ago
Anybody else feel hungry after reading this article?
- andrewvijay 10y ago
  Hungry and also incredibly sad some reason.
- Finnucane 10y ago
  Yes, now I want an alu paratha and korma.
sakopov 10y ago
I had the exact same memories of traveling by train in Russia. Food, food, food everywhere, at each stop. Unfortunately it's all gone now (after decades upon decades) due to new sanitary requirements under Putin. I don't remember getting sick or heard about anyone getting sick from the food. It was always the highlight of each trip, even if your family's bringing food (usually wrapped in foil) you still get out and try piroshki and pirogi on the way.
tn13 10y ago
Like everything else there are grey areas here too. As a child we were taught food is scared because people put efforts into it over years. In fact we uttered a prayer that meant "Food is God and consuming is worship." But I strongly disagree with that when people talk about food in train. I travelled in the general/sleeper classes often and so many times people would generously offer food and then steal your belonging because the food was spiked. A lot of families would carry their gas stoves in the train and fucking cook food in the running train which is a fire hazard. It was as if these people would not eat outside food for one day. People fought, got violent when confronted. Today most trains have pantry cars and an amazing food culture of railway stations that changes every few 100 miles. I would say enjoy that.
contingencies 10y ago
The author said India's vast rail network [...] the world's largest. I was certain China had more rail so I looked it up. These stats are from 2008, so China has no doubt advanced even further... China has 78,000 "route kilometers" and 154,600 "total kilometers" of track. (The US and Russia have more) India has "stagnated" at 63,000 route kilometers.[0] China has 578,000 freight wagons, 44,000 coaches and 18,300 locomotives, whereas India has 22,5000 freight wagons, 45,000 passenger coaches and 8,300 locomotives.[0] Indian's railways carry only ~22% of the freight carried by the China.[0] In 2007 India moved 750 Million MT of freight while China moved 4.5x that (i.e 3,300 Million MT).[0] India does move more people, but they count intra-Mumbai commuters as rail passengers, whereas China does not count subway commuters (which would probably be greater; since there are many large cities with subways). [0] https://streamlinesupplychain.wordpress.com/2008/12/14/chinese-railways-versus-indian-railways/ https://streamlinesupplychain.wordpress.com/2008/12/14/chine...
1024core 10y ago
One subtle point that is being missed (from the comments I read) is the concept of sharing food with strangers. When I came to the US from India (many years ago), I used to surprised that my American friends would just open up a pack of chips and start munching away. In India, it would be expected to at least offer the chips to the people around you.
rajeshp1986 10y ago
I am from India and I can tell you that there are 2 things that I find in India are very much unique and exotic. 1. Indian culinary skills are something very rare. I have travelled around of the world and seen the culinary skills everywhere, nowhere I have seen such a great usage of spices and variety of dishes that can be produces with mixing different ingredients. You can have variety of Roti's or parathas(which are indian breads) by combining different ingredients with breads. Most people know the India has so many languages and the dialects change every 100 miles, but only few foreigners know that it is true for food as well. Each state has its own set of foods. The food habits in North, central, south, east & west are completely different. There is so much to explore when it comes to food. we not only have diversity in religion and languages but also in food. 2. The train journeys in India are most exotic. There is no where in this world(im talking about developed countries), where you can have open train cabins. Just take a long cross country train journey and you will feel more satisfied and contemplated in the end. You might feel a bit uneasy about so much crowd around you, but just forget everything and look outside the window and see the passing by mountain and the setting sun. You will feel satisfied and have the best sleep in your life in that train journey, if it happens to be an overnight journey. This is when you will realize there is peace in the midst of all the chaos.
- witty_username 10y ago
  > best sleep in your life in that train journey, if it happens to be an overnight journey The train shakes constantly and AC is too cold in first-class, I haven't slept great in trains.
ceilingscorpion 10y ago
One of the things that Eastern cultures gets so right, that seems so foreign in the West. The last time I shared a meal with a stranger was in college

190 points by kposehn 10y ago

Sounds . . . pungent. I used to take the Amtrak every day from Union Station in DC to Penn Station in Baltimore. Friday evening trains were always full of people who brought dinner onboard. The food smells were awful--there is a reason Amtrak's Cafe Car only sells bland food. Being in a train without air conditioning and the smell of curry permeating the air sounds like my own personal hell.

zepto 10y ago
You could bring a gas mask. That way other people could enjoy their food without you having to be bothered.
madengr 10y ago
To each their own I suppose. I love the smell of curry permeating the air. Now BO on the other hand.... Anyway, good read.
- dsfyu404ed 10y ago
  This. A train line could probably increase ridership if they could guarantee that the train will always smell like strongly seasoned food.
deanCommie 10y ago
India overall is a very fragrant country. That's the word I would choose that is more neutral/positive compared to "pungent". It sounds like you have a very sensitive sense of smell and you would not do well in India. But for others - if the point of travel is to have new and novel experiences, and your senses being the primary entry point for experiences, India is the most intense sensory experience I've ever had - the smells, the sounds, and the sights all combine to overwhelm. As would be expected with a developing country of over a billion people, not all sensory interactions are positive, but with the bad comes far more good, and a worthwhile distinct experience.
- rayiner 10y ago
  > But for others - if the point of travel is to have new and novel experiences, and your senses being the primary entry point for experiences, India is the most intense sensory experience I've ever had - the smells, the sounds, and the sights all combine to overwhelm. Sounds like something a westerner visiting India would say. For people from there (my family is from nearby Bangladesh), a train is just a way to get to a business meeting or to visit family. I don't imagine Indian commuters--in general--appreciate the food smells any more than American commuters do (it's always the vacationers who bring smelly food onto the Amtrak, not the regular commuters or business travelers). In fact I'd wager that's why the "rich food culture" of the trains has "vanished." What the author sees as the lamentable loss of some cultural phenomenon, most Indians probably see as a laudable step toward modern comforts.
  - webtechgal 10y ago
    > In fact I'd wager that's why the "rich food culture" of the trains has "vanished." Not by a long shot. Reduced? Certainly. Vanished? Certainly not. I think the author of the OP is writing based on her limited experience, with the Mumbai chef also chiming in under a similar condition. > most Indians probably see as a laudable step toward modern comforts. I don't think so. Some? May be. Most? Doubtful.
  - pavanred 10y ago
    "...most Indians probably see this as a laudable step toward modern comforts...", a comment from someone who is not an Indian, while I see a few following comments by Indians (seemingly) who fondly reminisced about the experience. Its funny, the conviction that over a billion people of a different country/culture would see the world like you would. Besides, "modern comforts" are there for the taking if one wants it. One can always travel first class in these trains, where you have multiple tiers to choose from ranging from air conditioned private cabins to A/C car coaches. Otherwise, you can travel the other classes and tiers where you get a chance to explore what is talked about in the article. To each his/her own. Edit: I think the author is speaking about the experience in the cheapest 2 classes of Indian railways. Here are the fare class codes in Indian Railways [0]. There are at least 6-7 other tiers of fare classes above these. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Railways_coaching_stock#Accommodation_Types https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Railways_coaching_stock...
rvenkatesh25 10y ago
Haha.. the brilliance of the "staple" article can only be realized by nostalgia. If you've experienced what she said - in India, in your childhood, among the then open-and-freely-mingling people - you would not compare it to a DC to Baltimore ride. Or any train ride in the Western world. I personally related to every bit of that article. Used to go from Ahmedabad in Gujarat, to Chennai - in Navjeevan express that takes 36 hours, every other summer. Thanks to this author, I just relived that memory :)
AstroJetson 10y ago
Used to do DC to Wilmington. My travel companion and I never noticed the dinners. But we had one of those little travel mini-bars with two martini glasses and a shaker with room for some cheese and crackers. We traveled home in style.
rconti 10y ago
I cannot fathom why some people are so annoyed by the smell of food, which is of course a necessity of life. It seems like the kind of thing people CHOOSE to be annoyed by because of some imagined sense of politeness. Regardless, I suspect if you were in train packed full of people from various socioeconomic backgrounds on a hot day, the smell of food would be the LEAST offensive scent on offer.
- bogomipz 10y ago
  Really? It's annoying because you are captive. Have you not been on a plane and people near you take out their Kentucky Fried Chicken or McDonalds? You can't exactly open the window. That doesn't bother you in the least? Most people don't find the smell of fast food in close quarters enjoyable.
  - rconti 10y ago
    Not at all. Maybe if I'm hungry it makes me more hungry. And then they eat it and it's gone in a few minutes. I don't know where you got your "most people" supposition from.
- oh_sigh 10y ago
  Are you ever annoyed if someone is blasting music you don't like on a train?
  - rconti 10y ago
    Sure, although I don't consider music a necessity of life. I find the smell of certain things, like old cooked broccoli or kale, to make me want to vomit. But if a passenger on the train was eating it, I don't think it would disturb me nearly as much as endless music that interrupts my concentration. I don't see how these are in the same boat, even though the music is merely annoying and the smell of putrid greens makes me want to vomit.
    - oh_sigh 10y ago
      Food on a train isn't a necessity of life either. You aren't going to starve to death if you can't eat your fish and broccoli on the train. Constantly feeling the urge to vomit doesn't disturb your concentration, but music does? I'm confused how you can't see the commonalities between the two examples. In both cases, a person does something which disrupts many people in a shared space.
lake99 10y ago
> Being in a train without air conditioning... I can almost guarantee that if you're traveling in a non-AC compartment in India, the windows stay open. People only close them before sleeping at night, because when trains invariably stop at its scheduled stations, the passengers don't want to run the risk of thieves grabbing valuables through windows. There are some smells of certain cuisines that I absolutely detest (fish curry, garlic, etc.) but I can't recall ever being bothered by the smell of food in these compartments. I can recall being bothered by the smell of diesel fumes if the car happened to be close to the front. What drove me quite mad was this, "all culminating in a boisterous game of cards or round of antakshari". Ear plugs don't help much.
parennoob 10y ago
> Being in a train without air conditioning Western and Indian trains without air conditioning aren't the same -- in the Indian ones (at least 2nd AC and below) the windows can be opened, and often are. The wind blows away everything but the faintest aroma of cooking food.

whack 10y ago

She held out a plate to me, which I shyly refused. Go on, she urged me. "Food is never food unless you share it with others, no?" she said. I accepted and found love at first bite. I also remember a hearty Punjabi woman we met on another trip. She sighed at my mother's humble offering of idlis. "I can never make such soft idlis at home," she said, as I bit into her fragrant alu paratha (a flaky, potato-stuffed Indian bread), wondering why anyone who could eat such manna every day would ever want an idli. These food exchanges would invariably extend into detailed introductions, exchange of family histories, discovery of common acquaintances, all culminating in a boisterous game of cards or round of antakshari (contest of Hindi movie songs) and a final promise to keep in touch. There's something very beautiful about complete strangers interacting and engaging deeply with one another, free of any selfish desires besides that of companionship. There are many things I love about today's world, but that sense of camaraderie does seem diminished these days.

witty_username 10y ago
> sense of camaraderie does seem diminished these days Why do you think this?
- netsharc 10y ago
  To pick an easy target, smartphones mean you can travel for 3 months and still talk to your hometown friend every 5 minutes. Everyone is sharing their moments with their e-friends, instead of with others actually living that moment too.
  - witty_username 10y ago
    How is using a smartphone not actually living?
- deleted 10y ago
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sandGorgon 10y ago

No it's not vanishing . This food is part of our culture. It still exists in the city... And is now reinvented to be kitsch [1] [1] http://www.finelychopped.net/2015/11/why-breakfast-at-khar-social-makes-us.html?m=1 http://www.finelychopped.net/2015/11/why-breakfast-at-khar-s...

thr0waway1239 10y ago

The title is a bit misleading - I thought salt was the food which was being described as vanishing :-) I am not going to disagree with any of the other commenters. (After all, it has been said that everything you think is true about India - the exact opposite is also true somewhere in India) The question of trust is an important one, maybe even more than the issue of an economy which is developing (and hence making people more insular) - people on HN may not be aware, but there was a time (admittedly quite a few years ago) when there would be literally a news article every single day about the "biscuit bandits"- people who offered drugged cookies, which are usually called biscuits in India, and made off with the victims' valuables. I just searched online for "biscuit bandits" and found this ironic story - although I don't know if it is true. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chennai/CBI-inspector-falls-prey-to-biscuit-bandits/articleshow/4849921.cms http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chennai/CBI-inspecto... CBI is like the Indian FBI. (edit: Changed funny to ironic. To answer webtechgal, I meant funny in an ironic sense. The problem had been going on for many years when this person who worked in law enforcement was victimized. If it is possible to dupe law enforcement in this way, one can only imagine how challenging it is for the regular folks)

webtechgal 10y ago
> ...and found this funny story... No offense, but if you were at the receiving end of things, you probably won't find it funny. This (the 'biscuit bandit' thing - though I'm reading it described thus for the first time), has been a menace plaguing gullible travelers on India trains for many years now. With millions of people traveling each day on thousands of routes across the length and breadth of the country, it is happy hunting grounds for the culprits. In some cases, people end up losing their life savings. Sad, shocking, but true all the same, even today.
dang 10y ago
> The title is a bit misleading - I thought salt was the food Yes, websites that append their branding slugs to article titles are a bit of a pain. We've got a list of them that get removed automatically but I'm not sure if NPR's food blog rates an inclusion. Edit: once a year is often enough. Added. https://hn.algolia.com/?query=npr%20salt&sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=story&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0 https://hn.algolia.com/?query=npr%20salt&sort=byDate&dateRan...

deanCommie 10y ago

Every western country went through a similar transition in the last 20 years with a generation remembering the days when kids would bike to their friends house, people knew each other in neighborhoods even in large cities, and communities just felt tighter. It remains to be seen whether this is reversible and we can still bring it back, whether we actually replaced it with something better (replacing few strong social bonds with many more weaker bonds), or even whether it's just artificial nostalgia that ignores the poverty, discrimination and segregation of the past.

CalRobert 10y ago
I biked to my friend's houses when I was a kid, but any more it seems like the suburbs are just too spread out to make that practical for a lot of kids. The traffic is also fast-moving and unaccustomed to looking for road users who aren't also in cars.
- DashRattlesnake 10y ago
  Suburbs also used to have sidewalks, which made it easier and safer for younger children to explore a little. It just seems so bizarre to me to see newer ones with either sidewalks only on one side or the street or no sidewalks at all. I remember being very young and forbidden from crossing the street, but I pretty much had free reign of the sidewalk on the block I lived on.

yalogin 10y ago

That is something sorely missing in the US. People don't want to talk to someone they don't know. Or may be just not to me :)

jccalhoun 10y ago
Maybe there's something about me then because I hate it when strangers try to talk to me on a plane or in line (I'm in the midwest of the USA so no so much train riding going on here). Maybe it is cultural, maybe it is because I'm an only child, maybe it is genetic, or some combination of all of them (probably) but this article sounds like a nightmare to me. I don't want to hear about your kids. I don't want to hear about your favorite sports team. I don't want to hear about your political views.
bogomipz 10y ago
Thats patently untrue. The US is actually very big on small talk and causal chatter. You can't really make a blanket statement about a country the size of the US. New Yorkers will strike up a conversation with total stranger without thinking twice. In the deep south it would be considered rude to not say hello if you were passing someone on your block or street.
- vinay427 10y ago
  This reminds me of my flight returning from San Jose, CA to the upper Midwest, my current home. Within a few moments of my choosing an aisle seat, someone (who I later found out was from my hometown) joined me in the neighboring middle seat and immediately struck up a conversation. It was about his recommendation of a book I had in my lap that he had previously read. It was then that I realized this type of occurrence hadn't happened throughout the time I was in CA, and was a welcome reminder of home. Perhaps it was just coincidence that a stranger confronted me on my flight home, but I certainly have perceived people here to be a good deal more willing to talk to strangers and seemingly less aloof.

rconti 10y ago

More generally, the Friedman-esque "flattening" of the world has made a lot of things less special. It wasn't immediately obvious to me what we were losing at the time, but I now have a certain nostalgia for a time, just a couple short decades ago, when you could find things in your travels (foreign and domestic) that you couldn't simply order online or, at least, find on eBay. Souvenirs make so much less sense and feel so much less special when you don't need to travel to get them. Of course, I do not view the past with such rose-colored glasses that I cannot understand that these goods have a wider market than ever and are accessible (both in terms of affordability and physical access) to more people than ever. The businessperson in a small village somewhere sure isn't sad that their market has become effectively infinite. After all, many lament the bygone day of air travel when seats were comfortable and service excellent without realizing that they, like me, would not have been able to afford to travel by air at all 50 years ago. To bring it full circle, it sounds like the author is recognizing that, while that world of nostalgia is lost to her as she is now able to travel by air due to increasing wealth, so too a poorer generation of Indians is now able to afford to travel by train (home-cooked meals or not) when before they could not travel at all.

CalRobert 10y ago
It does feel weird to see that the world's souvenirs are largely made in China. I like my lamps I bought in Istanbul, but I could have bought not just a similar lamp, but quite possibly an identical one, online.
- csydas 10y ago
  While these issues are in part true, I think part of what maintains the allure of still going abroad or at least away from your current city is the discovery of what you want. Everything on the planet may just be a few clicks and a credit card away, but there are lots of things you don't realize you want because you didn't know they existed. Going and experiencing other cultures can help shape this. For a simple example, I never knew I wanted a cezve until I went to a place where they were more commonly used. Can I buy a cezve in the US? Absolutely, but I likely wouldn't have since the odds of someone using one to make coffee in the US is far lower. That's just a minor example, but it's representative of the allure that travel can still bring and what it ultimately brings - the chance to see and find things you didn't know about before. Souvenirs that aren't from shops labeled "Souvenir" still are usually much more unique and difficult to acquire without actually going to the source, and even the same activities just done with a different mindset or with a different cultural attitude can make all the difference.

webtechgal 10y ago

I think this whole article is a click-bait or over sensationalism. The culture that the author alludes to, authoritatively declaring it to have 'vanished', has not vanished by a long shot. If one were to take ten random train trips longer than 6 to 8 hours each, I bet not one will turn out to be sans signs of the rich food culture. In all probability, it has reduced, but certainly not vanished.

lake99 10y ago
> authoritatively declaring it to have 'vanished', has not vanished by a long shot. I agree with you completely. Indians are quite guilty of giving really weird ideas of India to outsiders. I mean, the culture is vastly different from western culture, as it is, but adding a thick layer of nostalgia or romanticism will only make their expectations more fantastical.
- angry_octet 10y ago
  It is pretty clear that the middle classes rarely take long train journeys any more. Poor people tend to be traveling for work rather than for holidays. So inevitability there are more individual travelers than families and people are (wisely) more cautious.
  - lake99 10y ago
    The phrase "middle class" is misleading here[1]. If you are talking about people with IT industry jobs, they certainly have enough disposable income to spend on flights or cars. Even lower income migrants travel home for major holidays, much like the author herself did when she was young. [1] http://qz.com/578793/indias-middle-class-is-almost-impossible-to-define/ http://qz.com/578793/indias-middle-class-is-almost-impossibl...
sterex 10y ago
I agree too. Whenever we travel as a (big) family by train, we ALWAYS pack food! And everyone brings a delicacy that makes up the feast!

known 10y ago

http://foodnetindia.in/whats-in-your-food/ http://foodnetindia.in/whats-in-your-food/

s3arch 10y ago

>In my childhood days, we could walk up to any house on the street in the middle of a cricket game and demand water. Often we would get rose sherbet or lemonade instead of plain water. Oh how much I miss those days....

suyash 10y ago

This will give you a better idea of what it was like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI_47ru03Z8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI_47ru03Z8

shafiqissani 10y ago

Anybody else feel hungry after reading this article?

andrewvijay 10y ago
Hungry and also incredibly sad some reason.
Finnucane 10y ago
Yes, now I want an alu paratha and korma.

sakopov 10y ago

I had the exact same memories of traveling by train in Russia. Food, food, food everywhere, at each stop. Unfortunately it's all gone now (after decades upon decades) due to new sanitary requirements under Putin. I don't remember getting sick or heard about anyone getting sick from the food. It was always the highlight of each trip, even if your family's bringing food (usually wrapped in foil) you still get out and try piroshki and pirogi on the way.

tn13 10y ago

Like everything else there are grey areas here too. As a child we were taught food is scared because people put efforts into it over years. In fact we uttered a prayer that meant "Food is God and consuming is worship." But I strongly disagree with that when people talk about food in train. I travelled in the general/sleeper classes often and so many times people would generously offer food and then steal your belonging because the food was spiked. A lot of families would carry their gas stoves in the train and fucking cook food in the running train which is a fire hazard. It was as if these people would not eat outside food for one day. People fought, got violent when confronted. Today most trains have pantry cars and an amazing food culture of railway stations that changes every few 100 miles. I would say enjoy that.

contingencies 10y ago

The author said India's vast rail network [...] the world's largest. I was certain China had more rail so I looked it up. These stats are from 2008, so China has no doubt advanced even further... China has 78,000 "route kilometers" and 154,600 "total kilometers" of track. (The US and Russia have more) India has "stagnated" at 63,000 route kilometers.[0] China has 578,000 freight wagons, 44,000 coaches and 18,300 locomotives, whereas India has 22,5000 freight wagons, 45,000 passenger coaches and 8,300 locomotives.[0] Indian's railways carry only ~22% of the freight carried by the China.[0] In 2007 India moved 750 Million MT of freight while China moved 4.5x that (i.e 3,300 Million MT).[0] India does move more people, but they count intra-Mumbai commuters as rail passengers, whereas China does not count subway commuters (which would probably be greater; since there are many large cities with subways). [0] https://streamlinesupplychain.wordpress.com/2008/12/14/chinese-railways-versus-indian-railways/ https://streamlinesupplychain.wordpress.com/2008/12/14/chine...

1024core 10y ago

One subtle point that is being missed (from the comments I read) is the concept of sharing food with strangers. When I came to the US from India (many years ago), I used to surprised that my American friends would just open up a pack of chips and start munching away. In India, it would be expected to at least offer the chips to the people around you.

rajeshp1986 10y ago

I am from India and I can tell you that there are 2 things that I find in India are very much unique and exotic. 1. Indian culinary skills are something very rare. I have travelled around of the world and seen the culinary skills everywhere, nowhere I have seen such a great usage of spices and variety of dishes that can be produces with mixing different ingredients. You can have variety of Roti's or parathas(which are indian breads) by combining different ingredients with breads. Most people know the India has so many languages and the dialects change every 100 miles, but only few foreigners know that it is true for food as well. Each state has its own set of foods. The food habits in North, central, south, east & west are completely different. There is so much to explore when it comes to food. we not only have diversity in religion and languages but also in food. 2. The train journeys in India are most exotic. There is no where in this world(im talking about developed countries), where you can have open train cabins. Just take a long cross country train journey and you will feel more satisfied and contemplated in the end. You might feel a bit uneasy about so much crowd around you, but just forget everything and look outside the window and see the passing by mountain and the setting sun. You will feel satisfied and have the best sleep in your life in that train journey, if it happens to be an overnight journey. This is when you will realize there is peace in the midst of all the chaos.

witty_username 10y ago
> best sleep in your life in that train journey, if it happens to be an overnight journey The train shakes constantly and AC is too cold in first-class, I haven't slept great in trains.

ceilingscorpion 10y ago

One of the things that Eastern cultures gets so right, that seems so foreign in the West. The last time I shared a meal with a stranger was in college