4 ms·

Does anyone know how much 'besa' is related to (or derived from) the Islamic tradition of warm hospitality towards travelers?

gkya 10y ago
That's cultural rather than religious. Probably the religion's tradition derives from the customs of the near east and eastern mediterranian.
- acdha 10y ago
  “That's cultural rather than religious” is a rather sweeping claim to simply assert without support. The interplay between religions and culture is incredibly complex and deserves more than a facile dismissal.
  - gkya 10y ago
    I've made no dismissal, just a comment. The interplay between religions and culture is that the religions don't come from gods, but they are formed in the cultures within which they emerge. They are not a collection of some madman's dreams and aphorisms, but a fruit of their communities, they are doctrinizations of the customs and beliefs that form their culture. Christianity and islam are the only examples of truly international and intercultural religions, up until christianity every people had their religion. But even then, christianity and islam are not monolithic things, every culture they touched formed their own subreligions. The islam of an aegean anatolian is different from the islam of a yemenite arab, the christianity of an armenian is dissimilar to that of an irlandese. Culture forms religion, and if albanians weren't already inclined to be welcoming and guest-loving, their religion (i.e. their version of islam) would reflect that. We look at islam and christianity as if they were big monolithic things, but every people live them their way.
wbeckler 10y ago
Albania is 60% muslim. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Albania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Albania
- cossatot 10y ago
  Yes I know; this is why I asked the question. It would be easier to suppose an answer if Albania was 98% or 2% Islamic.
ardit33 10y ago
Besa is actually a pagan (not religious) tradition, and predates some of the conversion of the country into muslim (when it was invaded by the ottoman turks). Before the Ottoman Invasion in the 15th century, most of Albania was part of the Roman Empire, and Catholic. Before being invaded by the Roman empire, the Albanian (Illyrian at the time) were pagan. The person that wrote the "Kanuni i Lek Dukagjinit", which is the codification of these customs into written form was actually a catholic Albanian priest.
aldokaraj 10y ago
"Kanuni i Leke Dukagjinit" which is where BESA originates, was the first attempt at governing the life of northern tribes in Albania at a time when a government did not exist. These tribes, even long after Albania was ruled by the Ottoman Empire, remained Catholic, which holds true to this day with regions such as Mirdita still inhabited by Catholics. This suggests that besa does neither relate to or derive from Islam.

gkya 10y ago

That's cultural rather than religious. Probably the religion's tradition derives from the customs of the near east and eastern mediterranian.

acdha 10y ago
“That's cultural rather than religious” is a rather sweeping claim to simply assert without support. The interplay between religions and culture is incredibly complex and deserves more than a facile dismissal.
- gkya 10y ago
  I've made no dismissal, just a comment. The interplay between religions and culture is that the religions don't come from gods, but they are formed in the cultures within which they emerge. They are not a collection of some madman's dreams and aphorisms, but a fruit of their communities, they are doctrinizations of the customs and beliefs that form their culture. Christianity and islam are the only examples of truly international and intercultural religions, up until christianity every people had their religion. But even then, christianity and islam are not monolithic things, every culture they touched formed their own subreligions. The islam of an aegean anatolian is different from the islam of a yemenite arab, the christianity of an armenian is dissimilar to that of an irlandese. Culture forms religion, and if albanians weren't already inclined to be welcoming and guest-loving, their religion (i.e. their version of islam) would reflect that. We look at islam and christianity as if they were big monolithic things, but every people live them their way.

wbeckler 10y ago

Albania is 60% muslim. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Albania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Albania

cossatot 10y ago
Yes I know; this is why I asked the question. It would be easier to suppose an answer if Albania was 98% or 2% Islamic.

ardit33 10y ago

Besa is actually a pagan (not religious) tradition, and predates some of the conversion of the country into muslim (when it was invaded by the ottoman turks). Before the Ottoman Invasion in the 15th century, most of Albania was part of the Roman Empire, and Catholic. Before being invaded by the Roman empire, the Albanian (Illyrian at the time) were pagan. The person that wrote the "Kanuni i Lek Dukagjinit", which is the codification of these customs into written form was actually a catholic Albanian priest.

aldokaraj 10y ago

"Kanuni i Leke Dukagjinit" which is where BESA originates, was the first attempt at governing the life of northern tribes in Albania at a time when a government did not exist. These tribes, even long after Albania was ruled by the Ottoman Empire, remained Catholic, which holds true to this day with regions such as Mirdita still inhabited by Catholics. This suggests that besa does neither relate to or derive from Islam.