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> but they do need competent business people But most business competence is recognized in retrospect. How many Harvard MBAs with awesome corporate track reco

by NSX2 19y ago

> but they do need competent business people But most business competence is recognized in retrospect. How many Harvard MBAs with awesome corporate track records do you see starting awesome companys which make products you love? Like, almost none? > to convince or he has a proven track record or he already has money "proven track records" are what jealous people who inherit money to start investment funds look for to make business starters feel small. Tell me, based on the "track record" of Steve Jobs/Woz, Howard Shultz (door-to-door expresso machine salesperson), Richard Branson, and God knows who else, would you invest a penny in their "I dropped out of college/never went to chase my dream of beating huge, well-financed, well established companies on their own turf by doing something unproven" ideas? I bet not. But you'd be very rich if you did. > from your perspective would you partner/hire an engineer who can't build something. you can guage who's a solid engineer by what they've built, as oppose to just what they claim... But most people just showcase what they CAN build, which, in my experience, rarely translates into the ability to build what they've never built before. >on another point, when u don't have a product yet does it always make sense to get someone to start selling it before it's there in every situation (as opposed to getting someone to help you build it)? Sure. I'd gladly pick an awesome salesperson who can pre-sell it to 100,000 paying customers over 10 of the best programmers working away day and night all the time. That salesperson's ability will get me the money to tell VCs to go to hell and then have plenty left to hire the best programmers I can find. The programmers, meanwhile, don't guarantee anybody will buy it once its done. >that's a bad analogy, considering patients are doctors' customers Not really. Most surgeons make enough money to not have to work for the money and do it for the challenge/love. Imagine they got offended at everyone's lack of medical knowledge.

chaostheory 19y ago
"How many Harvard MBAs with awesome corporate track records do you see starting awesome companys which make products you love?" well a lot of them tend to join big established corporations... not to mention many successful entreprenuers don't have MBAs let alone degrees "tell me, based on the "track record" of Steve Jobs/Woz, Howard Shultz (door-to-door expresso machine salesperson), Richard Branson," well I mentioned charisma right? Jobs and Branson are bad examples for your argument, since they are extremely charismatic - hell they're legendary for it " most people just showcase what they CAN build" better than empty words... "Sure. I'd gladly pick an awesome salesperson who can pre-sell it to 100,000 paying customers " what if it doesn't get built after you presold? "Most surgeons make enough money to not have to work for the money and do it for the challenge/love" well all the doctors I know from college have a lot of bills to pay, which don't include the extremely high cost of malpractice insurance.... =)
- NSX2 19y ago
  > well a lot of them tend to join big established corporations... not to mention many successful entreprenuers don't have MBAs let alone degrees Exactly. Hence, track records are useless. Unless you have a track record of starting big successful companies. Nobody who has that would bother talking to programmers. They'd hire them to wash their ferraris for the entertainment value. >well I mentioned charisma right? Jobs and Branson are bad examples for your argument, since they are extremely charismatic - hell they're legendary for it Psst! AFTER they get rich it's called "charisma" .. until then, it's called being a loon. Take away fame and money and "charisma" suddenly = annoying personality. > better than empty words... Not really. I can build the biggest house of cards you ever saw. Not sure how that makes me money. Same thing with most applications I've seen programmers show me when they told me they're too busy to build my thing. Awesome. Profound. They even convinced me their solutions were technically superior to everyting. I can't figure out who'd give them any money for it, so in the end they amount to the same thing as my house of cards or "empty words" , ie, nothing anybody would actually buy. > what if it doesn't get built after you presold? Um, well, if programmers are still too snobby here after I got 100,000 people to pay me for it up front, (a) they're too stupid to hire because they don't realize the value of 100,000 people willing to pay you before it's even built and (b) I'd use the money to fly to Russia and spend 3 months finding programmers there. > well all the doctors I know from college have a lot of bills to pay, which don't include the extremely high cost of malpractice insurance.... =) Doctors, maybe. Surgeons, I doubt. Most surgeons can pay off med school with 1-few proceedures, depending on the nature. > extremely high cost of malpractice insurance.... =) I don't think the doctors themselves pay that - the hospitals / private companies which own/manage them these days do that.

by NSX2 19y ago

chaostheory 19y ago

"How many Harvard MBAs with awesome corporate track records do you see starting awesome companys which make products you love?" well a lot of them tend to join big established corporations... not to mention many successful entreprenuers don't have MBAs let alone degrees "tell me, based on the "track record" of Steve Jobs/Woz, Howard Shultz (door-to-door expresso machine salesperson), Richard Branson," well I mentioned charisma right? Jobs and Branson are bad examples for your argument, since they are extremely charismatic - hell they're legendary for it " most people just showcase what they CAN build" better than empty words... "Sure. I'd gladly pick an awesome salesperson who can pre-sell it to 100,000 paying customers " what if it doesn't get built after you presold? "Most surgeons make enough money to not have to work for the money and do it for the challenge/love" well all the doctors I know from college have a lot of bills to pay, which don't include the extremely high cost of malpractice insurance.... =)

NSX2 19y ago
> well a lot of them tend to join big established corporations... not to mention many successful entreprenuers don't have MBAs let alone degrees Exactly. Hence, track records are useless. Unless you have a track record of starting big successful companies. Nobody who has that would bother talking to programmers. They'd hire them to wash their ferraris for the entertainment value. >well I mentioned charisma right? Jobs and Branson are bad examples for your argument, since they are extremely charismatic - hell they're legendary for it Psst! AFTER they get rich it's called "charisma" .. until then, it's called being a loon. Take away fame and money and "charisma" suddenly = annoying personality. > better than empty words... Not really. I can build the biggest house of cards you ever saw. Not sure how that makes me money. Same thing with most applications I've seen programmers show me when they told me they're too busy to build my thing. Awesome. Profound. They even convinced me their solutions were technically superior to everyting. I can't figure out who'd give them any money for it, so in the end they amount to the same thing as my house of cards or "empty words" , ie, nothing anybody would actually buy. > what if it doesn't get built after you presold? Um, well, if programmers are still too snobby here after I got 100,000 people to pay me for it up front, (a) they're too stupid to hire because they don't realize the value of 100,000 people willing to pay you before it's even built and (b) I'd use the money to fly to Russia and spend 3 months finding programmers there. > well all the doctors I know from college have a lot of bills to pay, which don't include the extremely high cost of malpractice insurance.... =) Doctors, maybe. Surgeons, I doubt. Most surgeons can pay off med school with 1-few proceedures, depending on the nature. > extremely high cost of malpractice insurance.... =) I don't think the doctors themselves pay that - the hospitals / private companies which own/manage them these days do that.