5 ms·

I've never seriously considered it, though there were times during my previous marriage that no one would have faulted me for trying. That said, if I were going

I've never seriously considered it, though there were times during my previous marriage that no one would have faulted me for trying. That said, if I were going to it would be hiking or camping, outside of the state I'm in now, and I would have to prepare incrementally over a year or so. Buying or making survival gear, stuffing away $5 at a time here and there, and preparing myself to live off the land for the foreseeable future. The reason I say that is because it's becoming much more difficult to be a "nobody" in an urban environment. You can only disappear until your first run-in with police. Even if you've never been arrested you're still in the system.

Someone 10y ago
Yet, many people staying illegally in a country manage to live in cities (yes, they aren't in the system, but that isn't advantageous, as 'not being in the system' already is a cause for locking you up) The trick indeed is avoiding any run-in with the government. If there's one group of people who never jay-walk and always have a valid ticket in public transport, it's illegal aliens.
- bruceb 10y ago
  Except cities don't arrest people for being in the country illegally. Most don't hold them after they serve their time for minor crimes.
  - Someone 10y ago
    That depends on the country. If citizens are obliged to carry an ID, any finable offense, no matter how small, can trigger the more severe offense of not being able to show ID. When subsequent research leads to the discovery that one doesn't have an ID, it can get you locked up or kicked out of the country.
  - Broken_Hippo 10y ago
    In the US, some will call the correct authorities. Others simply refuse to spend their money on it. But the bigger risk is that committing a minor crime puts you into the system. I'm going to guess it is quite easy to assume that getting arrested or fined puts you closer to being caught than not doing so. One is likely taking risk daily just by working and renting an apartment, depending on circumstance. (Naturally, some landlords don't really get information and some jobs skirt legal requirements.) Heck, even as a legal immigrant, I'm pretty careful not to break laws that I can easily avoid breaking. I know a traffic ticket won't get me sent back to the US, but I'd rather stay on the safe side.
pavel_lishin 10y ago
> You can only disappear until your first run-in with police. Even if you've never been arrested you're still in the system. I'm not sure about the comparative odds of having a run-in with the police in a busy urban environment, vs. living off land you don't own.
- morganvachon 10y ago
  I'm basing that on what I've seen of police interactions with homeless people in the cities versus my own experiences hunting, hiking, and camping. If you're out in the woods in a place you have a right to be, and you appear to know what you're doing, the ranger will usually just make sure you look like you'll live through the night. By contrast, a homeless person is likely to face a presumption of guilt in a city cop's eyes and at the very least be questioned, which can lead to identity issues. A ranger is likely to just say "carry on" without asking for ID if you're just camping. That said, it's a good idea to not haunt a particular area too long, city or countryside.
  - pavel_lishin 10y ago
    I'm going to assume you know more about this than I do, because I know virtually nothing; I just sort of blindly assumed that you'd build a semi-permanent shelter and do some light farming in the area - but like I said, what I know about survival I learned from a handful of television shows. I also know that it didn't look particularly fun, either - I think given my options, I'd rather be homeless in a city rather than homeless in the wilderness.
    - morganvachon 10y ago
      Well, if you're not hiding your identity and you just want to live off the land, go ahead and sell your investments and car and buy some acreage to homestead. It's a rough life but it's doable and enjoyable if you have the right mindset. If you're hiding your identity, you don't want to put down roots; a nomadic lifestyle is a must. Personally I'm the opposite of you, I grew up playing in the woods and living on a farm so I'd be at home in the wilderness. In the city I'd be too paranoid to be comfortable, especially if I didn't want people to know who I was. There's also the middle ground: Hike/hitchhike your way across the country, getting as far from "home" as you can. Find a small town or a farm where you can work for cash/room and board, don't ask too many questions and don't answer too many. After a few months or so, move on to another small town and start over. It's a hybrid lifestyle that may work for some people, keeps you mostly incognito but still near the comforts of modern life.
ufmace 10y ago
Seems pretty clear to me that being a legal nobody is pretty non-viable long term. If you were really going to do something like that, you'd have to build a new identity from scratch for yourself that's good enough to stand up to at least basic interaction with police and government agencies.

Someone 10y ago

Yet, many people staying illegally in a country manage to live in cities (yes, they aren't in the system, but that isn't advantageous, as 'not being in the system' already is a cause for locking you up) The trick indeed is avoiding any run-in with the government. If there's one group of people who never jay-walk and always have a valid ticket in public transport, it's illegal aliens.

bruceb 10y ago
Except cities don't arrest people for being in the country illegally. Most don't hold them after they serve their time for minor crimes.
- Someone 10y ago
  That depends on the country. If citizens are obliged to carry an ID, any finable offense, no matter how small, can trigger the more severe offense of not being able to show ID. When subsequent research leads to the discovery that one doesn't have an ID, it can get you locked up or kicked out of the country.
- Broken_Hippo 10y ago
  In the US, some will call the correct authorities. Others simply refuse to spend their money on it. But the bigger risk is that committing a minor crime puts you into the system. I'm going to guess it is quite easy to assume that getting arrested or fined puts you closer to being caught than not doing so. One is likely taking risk daily just by working and renting an apartment, depending on circumstance. (Naturally, some landlords don't really get information and some jobs skirt legal requirements.) Heck, even as a legal immigrant, I'm pretty careful not to break laws that I can easily avoid breaking. I know a traffic ticket won't get me sent back to the US, but I'd rather stay on the safe side.

pavel_lishin 10y ago

> You can only disappear until your first run-in with police. Even if you've never been arrested you're still in the system. I'm not sure about the comparative odds of having a run-in with the police in a busy urban environment, vs. living off land you don't own.

morganvachon 10y ago
I'm basing that on what I've seen of police interactions with homeless people in the cities versus my own experiences hunting, hiking, and camping. If you're out in the woods in a place you have a right to be, and you appear to know what you're doing, the ranger will usually just make sure you look like you'll live through the night. By contrast, a homeless person is likely to face a presumption of guilt in a city cop's eyes and at the very least be questioned, which can lead to identity issues. A ranger is likely to just say "carry on" without asking for ID if you're just camping. That said, it's a good idea to not haunt a particular area too long, city or countryside.
- pavel_lishin 10y ago
  I'm going to assume you know more about this than I do, because I know virtually nothing; I just sort of blindly assumed that you'd build a semi-permanent shelter and do some light farming in the area - but like I said, what I know about survival I learned from a handful of television shows. I also know that it didn't look particularly fun, either - I think given my options, I'd rather be homeless in a city rather than homeless in the wilderness.
  - morganvachon 10y ago
    Well, if you're not hiding your identity and you just want to live off the land, go ahead and sell your investments and car and buy some acreage to homestead. It's a rough life but it's doable and enjoyable if you have the right mindset. If you're hiding your identity, you don't want to put down roots; a nomadic lifestyle is a must. Personally I'm the opposite of you, I grew up playing in the woods and living on a farm so I'd be at home in the wilderness. In the city I'd be too paranoid to be comfortable, especially if I didn't want people to know who I was. There's also the middle ground: Hike/hitchhike your way across the country, getting as far from "home" as you can. Find a small town or a farm where you can work for cash/room and board, don't ask too many questions and don't answer too many. After a few months or so, move on to another small town and start over. It's a hybrid lifestyle that may work for some people, keeps you mostly incognito but still near the comforts of modern life.

ufmace 10y ago

Seems pretty clear to me that being a legal nobody is pretty non-viable long term. If you were really going to do something like that, you'd have to build a new identity from scratch for yourself that's good enough to stand up to at least basic interaction with police and government agencies.