5 ms·

and why do you want to fight it?

rocky1138 10y ago
Embrace, extend, extinguish: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace%2C_extend_and_extinguish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace%2C_extend_and_extingui...
- HelloMcFly 10y ago
  Sorry, maybe I'm dense: what exactly are you afraid of being extinguished here?
  - thesimpsons1022 10y ago
    mine craft or education I guess
  - ocdtrekkie 10y ago
    It doesn't have to make sense. If someone posts about Microsoft someone else has to comment with a twenty year old business strategy from a guy who hasn't worked there in a decade.
    - rocky1138 10y ago
      I'm sorry, if I wasn't entirely clear. It's not so much about being anti-Microsoft or even anti-Minecraft. I love Minecraft and the new Microsoft is really good as compared to the old one. But, there's a lot of value in having an open source and libre edition of anything which started out or is maintained as a closed-source, proprietary system. Consider: Firefox versus IE, Linux versus OSX or Windows, or LibreOffice versus Microsoft Office. With Minecraft, there is no opportunity for developers to really get on-board to build stuff with them. The source is closed and Mojang is AWOL when it comes to the developer API. Minetest, on the other hand, is LGPL and is freely available.
      - ocdtrekkie 10y ago
        Perhaps a better approach would be to simply say that if people are then looking for something a bit above and beyond, in terms of programmability, this is something they can look at, rather than talking about "fighting" Microsoft.
- dump121 10y ago
  They way this term is thrown around, curious if the posters ever understood the strategy or even read the linked wiki page.
shmerl 10y ago
Using closed stuff for education is a bad idea to begin with. Especially when there are open alternatives. I'm very surprised many in the education sphere don't get it. Windows, Windows everywhere and so on.
- fixermark 10y ago
  Can you explain why that is? Most people I know who have anything like a computer background from school learned the standard MS Office suite; they then went on to jobs where those skills were useful because their companies also used the MS Office suite. What's the advantage of teaching fundamentals using software the student is less likely to see again?
  - shmerl 10y ago
    It's a catch 22 lock-in perpetuated by MS. It should be broken and education system is as good place as any to do it. MS hooked everyone on it, and arguments like "what's the advantage of not being hooked on it, since everyone is" aren't helping. Luckily some actually get it and use Linux in schools. But in my experience it's not common (in higher education chances are better).
    - fixermark 10y ago
      I think you're seeing familiarity with open source tools as an end. If the goal of education is to teach people fundamentals of computer use that are independent of software, the use of open source in that equation is orthogonal to the goal. It's easier to just use what everyone else is using. I think the "it" some "get" is not seen as a necessary "it" for the purposes of education, and "Using closed stuff for education is a bad idea" is begging the question. Linux is 25 years old now. The GPL is older than that. The ecosystem around them has had plenty of time to prove its worth as a superior solution for educational tools; it mostly wallows around in a sea of mutually-incompatible "maybe-we-could" and "what-if-we-tried" initiatives without the kind of clout behind them that make institutions believe the solution's providers will be around in five years and the institution won't be stuck owning 100% of the tool they don't really want to support. It turns out most educators and students would rather have a working solution guaranteed by someone with money in the game than a tool they can fully modify, evidence seems to suggest. The advantage to the MS ecosystem is that when it doesn't work, you can take it to multiple independent companies who will fix it for you.
badlogic 10y ago
Because Minecraft Education Edition is not scriptable/modable unlike Minecraft for Desktop or Minetest.

Embrace, extend, extinguish: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace%2C_extend_and_extinguish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace%2C_extend_and_extingui...

HelloMcFly 10y ago
Sorry, maybe I'm dense: what exactly are you afraid of being extinguished here?
- thesimpsons1022 10y ago
  mine craft or education I guess
- ocdtrekkie 10y ago
  It doesn't have to make sense. If someone posts about Microsoft someone else has to comment with a twenty year old business strategy from a guy who hasn't worked there in a decade.
  - rocky1138 10y ago
    I'm sorry, if I wasn't entirely clear. It's not so much about being anti-Microsoft or even anti-Minecraft. I love Minecraft and the new Microsoft is really good as compared to the old one. But, there's a lot of value in having an open source and libre edition of anything which started out or is maintained as a closed-source, proprietary system. Consider: Firefox versus IE, Linux versus OSX or Windows, or LibreOffice versus Microsoft Office. With Minecraft, there is no opportunity for developers to really get on-board to build stuff with them. The source is closed and Mojang is AWOL when it comes to the developer API. Minetest, on the other hand, is LGPL and is freely available.
    - ocdtrekkie 10y ago
      Perhaps a better approach would be to simply say that if people are then looking for something a bit above and beyond, in terms of programmability, this is something they can look at, rather than talking about "fighting" Microsoft.
dump121 10y ago
They way this term is thrown around, curious if the posters ever understood the strategy or even read the linked wiki page.

shmerl 10y ago

Using closed stuff for education is a bad idea to begin with. Especially when there are open alternatives. I'm very surprised many in the education sphere don't get it. Windows, Windows everywhere and so on.

fixermark 10y ago
Can you explain why that is? Most people I know who have anything like a computer background from school learned the standard MS Office suite; they then went on to jobs where those skills were useful because their companies also used the MS Office suite. What's the advantage of teaching fundamentals using software the student is less likely to see again?
- shmerl 10y ago
  It's a catch 22 lock-in perpetuated by MS. It should be broken and education system is as good place as any to do it. MS hooked everyone on it, and arguments like "what's the advantage of not being hooked on it, since everyone is" aren't helping. Luckily some actually get it and use Linux in schools. But in my experience it's not common (in higher education chances are better).
  - fixermark 10y ago
    I think you're seeing familiarity with open source tools as an end. If the goal of education is to teach people fundamentals of computer use that are independent of software, the use of open source in that equation is orthogonal to the goal. It's easier to just use what everyone else is using. I think the "it" some "get" is not seen as a necessary "it" for the purposes of education, and "Using closed stuff for education is a bad idea" is begging the question. Linux is 25 years old now. The GPL is older than that. The ecosystem around them has had plenty of time to prove its worth as a superior solution for educational tools; it mostly wallows around in a sea of mutually-incompatible "maybe-we-could" and "what-if-we-tried" initiatives without the kind of clout behind them that make institutions believe the solution's providers will be around in five years and the institution won't be stuck owning 100% of the tool they don't really want to support. It turns out most educators and students would rather have a working solution guaranteed by someone with money in the game than a tool they can fully modify, evidence seems to suggest. The advantage to the MS ecosystem is that when it doesn't work, you can take it to multiple independent companies who will fix it for you.

badlogic 10y ago

Because Minecraft Education Edition is not scriptable/modable unlike Minecraft for Desktop or Minetest.