5 ms·

EU Court: Open WiFi Operator Not Liable for Pirate Users

185 points by chewymouse 10y ago

zaroth 10y ago
So you can offer free internet access at your business in order to attract customers (e.g. Starbucks or McDonalds); The Court holds, first of all, that making a Wi-Fi network available to the general public free of charge in order to draw the attention of potential customers to the goods and services of a shop constitutes an ‘information society service’ under the directive on [electronic commerce],” the decision reads. However copyright holders can still obtain an injunction forcing the provider to institute some measure of access control which must collect the identities of end-users to provide a deterrent. TFA does not mention any requirements on retention or access to this tracking data. "The Court nevertheless underlines that, in order to ensure that deterrent effect, it is necessary to require users to reveal their identity to be prevented from acting anonymously before obtaining the required password,” the ruling adds. So in essence they want to treat open WiFi APs as a type of mini-ISP. I'd say this is extremely problematic. If you have to disclose your identity in order to use free WiFi it pretty much kills free WiFi. The court seemed to understand that terminating the service was not an appropriate remedy, but then proceeded to shoot it in the back.
- k-mcgrady 10y ago
  > If you have to disclose your identity in order to use free WiFi it pretty much kills free WiFi. Don't you already have to do this with most free wifi? A lot seem to offer a free 30 mins but more than that are you have to create an account.
  - jtl999 10y ago
    Starbucks in Canada: I just accept an agreement and it works. No login needed.
    - iLoch 10y ago
      But that's because they can already track your identity by correlating purchases and wifi accesses.
      - icebraining 10y ago
        If you pay with cash, how are they tracking your identity?
        jtl999 10y ago
        My point exactly. Not to mention you could just be in a car hacking away on their wifi.
        x0x0 10y ago
        A wifi mac address is probably traceable for the vast majority of users. I'm aware you can change them, but most people aren't.
      - noiv 10y ago
        Sure, copyright infringement proven by latte macchiato.
      - extra88 10y ago
        A) No. B) VPN
  - vog 10y ago
    Almost every café in Berlin that has wifi: Ask for the wiki password at the bar, or find it next to the menu card, or at some wall. The only problem is that many cafés / bars don't provide wifi, because they are afraid of providing wifi at all due to the "Störerhaftung" (a legal issue that exists almost nowhere except in Germany). Luckily, there's Freifunk and VPNs to the rescue.
- CJefferson 10y ago
  I don't understand why this kills free wi-fi. I use free wi-fi all the time that wants my name and email address.
  - elcct 10y ago
    But you can provide temporary name and disposable email, no?
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - Iv 10y ago
    You live in the time before someone has been indicted for accepting bogus names and email addresses. I used to live in a time where you could book a hotel without providing a valid ID.
- growse 10y ago
  To what extent must the provider verify that the identity provided is accurate? If 'disclosing identity' actually means 'typing text into a form', then it's pretty toothless. As an end-user, I could put whatever 'identity' I wanted there.
  - eternalban 10y ago
    Point of Sale + cashless society = problem solved.
  - luispedrocoelho 10y ago
    I think it means "provide government-issued photo ID to get a password which can be traced back to you". The context is if someone using the cafe's internet infringes on copyright, the copyright holder needs to find whom to sue. That is not possible in a "type a random email address" mode.
- raverbashing 10y ago
  A lot of places in France (like SBucks) ask for email/and password. In Austria it is even worse Or you can also not allow torrent/etc through your Wifi service
- cryptarch 10y ago
  Does this decision mean it's now required to have a captive portal on my open hotspot at home, or does this decision only pertain to commercial enterprises? It sounds like the latter, but the idea that I might soon be required to set up a "Sign in to Facebook to use cryptarch's free Wi-Fi" portal is pretty frightening. (Because, of course, just any identifier won't do!)
bluesign 10y ago
I suspect this logic can also apply to tor exit nodes, which is more troublesome.
- ayyn0n0n0 10y ago
  There are ways to configure your tor exit node ExitPolicy to be responsible and to be pro-active against malicious activity and abuse. If you would like to read more: http://tornull.org http://tornull.org https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/ReducedExitPolicy https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/ReducedExi... With a minimal amount of work and upkeep. You can cut down on abuse fairly easily.
  - bluesign 10y ago
    I know but I was referring to identity part; 'in order to ensure that deterrent effect, it is necessary to require users to reveal their identity to be prevented from acting anonymously'
  - cryptarch 10y ago
    I was under the impression that this was a dangerous thing to do, because by using custom filtering you implicitly accept responsibility for what illegal content slips through your filter.
    - cryptarch 10y ago
      I can't edit my post anymore, but I couldn't find a source to back this up. According to the Tor Blog, it should be fine to have a reduced exit policy. For reference: https://blog.torproject.org/running-exit-node https://blog.torproject.org/running-exit-node
  - wyager 10y ago
    How do I avoid Tor exit nodes that block "abuse" as defined by copyright barons?

185 points by chewymouse 10y ago

So you can offer free internet access at your business in order to attract customers (e.g. Starbucks or McDonalds); The Court holds, first of all, that making a Wi-Fi network available to the general public free of charge in order to draw the attention of potential customers to the goods and services of a shop constitutes an ‘information society service’ under the directive on [electronic commerce],” the decision reads. However copyright holders can still obtain an injunction forcing the provider to institute some measure of access control which must collect the identities of end-users to provide a deterrent. TFA does not mention any requirements on retention or access to this tracking data. "The Court nevertheless underlines that, in order to ensure that deterrent effect, it is necessary to require users to reveal their identity to be prevented from acting anonymously before obtaining the required password,” the ruling adds. So in essence they want to treat open WiFi APs as a type of mini-ISP. I'd say this is extremely problematic. If you have to disclose your identity in order to use free WiFi it pretty much kills free WiFi. The court seemed to understand that terminating the service was not an appropriate remedy, but then proceeded to shoot it in the back.

k-mcgrady 10y ago
> If you have to disclose your identity in order to use free WiFi it pretty much kills free WiFi. Don't you already have to do this with most free wifi? A lot seem to offer a free 30 mins but more than that are you have to create an account.
- jtl999 10y ago
  Starbucks in Canada: I just accept an agreement and it works. No login needed.
  - iLoch 10y ago
    But that's because they can already track your identity by correlating purchases and wifi accesses.
    - icebraining 10y ago
      If you pay with cash, how are they tracking your identity?
      - jtl999 10y ago
        My point exactly. Not to mention you could just be in a car hacking away on their wifi.
      - x0x0 10y ago
        A wifi mac address is probably traceable for the vast majority of users. I'm aware you can change them, but most people aren't.
    - noiv 10y ago
      Sure, copyright infringement proven by latte macchiato.
    - extra88 10y ago
      A) No. B) VPN
- vog 10y ago
  Almost every café in Berlin that has wifi: Ask for the wiki password at the bar, or find it next to the menu card, or at some wall. The only problem is that many cafés / bars don't provide wifi, because they are afraid of providing wifi at all due to the "Störerhaftung" (a legal issue that exists almost nowhere except in Germany). Luckily, there's Freifunk and VPNs to the rescue.
CJefferson 10y ago
I don't understand why this kills free wi-fi. I use free wi-fi all the time that wants my name and email address.
- elcct 10y ago
  But you can provide temporary name and disposable email, no?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- Iv 10y ago
  You live in the time before someone has been indicted for accepting bogus names and email addresses. I used to live in a time where you could book a hotel without providing a valid ID.
growse 10y ago
To what extent must the provider verify that the identity provided is accurate? If 'disclosing identity' actually means 'typing text into a form', then it's pretty toothless. As an end-user, I could put whatever 'identity' I wanted there.
- eternalban 10y ago
  Point of Sale + cashless society = problem solved.
- luispedrocoelho 10y ago
  I think it means "provide government-issued photo ID to get a password which can be traced back to you". The context is if someone using the cafe's internet infringes on copyright, the copyright holder needs to find whom to sue. That is not possible in a "type a random email address" mode.
raverbashing 10y ago
A lot of places in France (like SBucks) ask for email/and password. In Austria it is even worse Or you can also not allow torrent/etc through your Wifi service
cryptarch 10y ago
Does this decision mean it's now required to have a captive portal on my open hotspot at home, or does this decision only pertain to commercial enterprises? It sounds like the latter, but the idea that I might soon be required to set up a "Sign in to Facebook to use cryptarch's free Wi-Fi" portal is pretty frightening. (Because, of course, just any identifier won't do!)

bluesign 10y ago

I suspect this logic can also apply to tor exit nodes, which is more troublesome.

ayyn0n0n0 10y ago
There are ways to configure your tor exit node ExitPolicy to be responsible and to be pro-active against malicious activity and abuse. If you would like to read more: http://tornull.org http://tornull.org https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/ReducedExitPolicy https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/ReducedExi... With a minimal amount of work and upkeep. You can cut down on abuse fairly easily.
- bluesign 10y ago
  I know but I was referring to identity part; 'in order to ensure that deterrent effect, it is necessary to require users to reveal their identity to be prevented from acting anonymously'
- cryptarch 10y ago
  I was under the impression that this was a dangerous thing to do, because by using custom filtering you implicitly accept responsibility for what illegal content slips through your filter.
  - cryptarch 10y ago
    I can't edit my post anymore, but I couldn't find a source to back this up. According to the Tor Blog, it should be fine to have a reduced exit policy. For reference: https://blog.torproject.org/running-exit-node https://blog.torproject.org/running-exit-node
- wyager 10y ago
  How do I avoid Tor exit nodes that block "abuse" as defined by copyright barons?