>>So it seems like you try to view this situation through the lens of game theory and approximate the situation to common prisoners dilemma game. You are choosi

>>So it seems like you try to view this situation through the lens of game theory and approximate the situation to common prisoners dilemma game. You are choosing the strategy of don't cooperate because you simply can't see that the other side will cooperate. This is all very rational if you accept that it's a single shot game or that there is no way the other side would change. However, you also destroy the potential pay offs of cooperating because the other side is in the similar situation as you, having very similar thoughts. You pre-deterime the outcome. >>Why should I believe you? You made up your mind before I came. I never had a chance to convince you of my ideas or demonstrate how I could be a productive member of society - even with religion. No, I am not predetermining the outcome. Also I have not made up my mind about you. Yes, a person (including you) could be a productive member of society - even with his/her belief in his/her religion - but the person has to be content with just believing things said in his/her religion and must be content with following only those commands that are not illegal in this country and that means such a person should not start acting on the evil commands given in his/her religion. So as long as a Muslim person agrees and adheres to this humane code of conduct, I don't have any problem with him/her believing anything he/she likes and I don't have much problem with him/her following harmless commands (like, uttering the words 'insha allah' sometimes while speaking, or praying to their allah or on certain day slaughtering those animals that this country legally allows to be slaughtered to please their allah because they believe that their prophet muhammad, who claimed that he is the last prophet of their god allah, said that their god allah said that allah will be pleased and will send them to jannaht and will give them 72 virgin girls to enjoy sex-orgy forever in the heaven after their death if Muslims slaughter animals on some festival day and will be displeased and will send them to hell and burn them forever if they don't). See [1] for why this clarification. I don't have problem with you or anyone believing such things and following such commands if it pleases you. But if the person's "even with religion" qualification brings some evil elements of his/her religious beliefs like "waging jihad against the non-believers/apostates and killing them because their prophet said that their allah said to him on some hotline that 'hey muhammad my last messenger, tell your follower Muslims that non-believers/apostates are enemies of Islam/allah and hence it is a duty of every muslim to first try to convert them by trying to verbally convince them about the greatness of islam and then if they don't seem to get convinced wage war (jihad) against them in order to kill them and that if they fulfil this duty I (allah) will give them 72 virgin girls to play with forever in the heaven after their death and if they don't then I will rot them in the hell forever" and then if such a religious person acts according to such evil beliefs/commands then I have an objection to it. For the simple reason that this means my own life will be in danger because I am non-believer in Islam and I know I will not get convinced by the 'davaah'(invitation) a believer Muslim will first try with me. The point is as long as you or any person does not physically attack and harm other people just because they don't take your/his/her religion seriously enough for you/him/her or make fun/ridicule of your/his/her religion or your/his/her prophet or your/his/her gods/allahs then I don't have any problem in accepting your proposition that you can be productive member of society - even with belief in religion. >>Yes, you personally may have not physically attacked anyone but realizing that individuals are not like a stereotype is difficult, isn't it? How my ridiculing a scripture turns someone into a stereotype? People in the Europe,US have been ridiculing Bible, prophet jesus and trinity/god for quite a lot of time, has this caused any stereotyping of the Christians here? Hardly. Similarly, ridiculing Quran, Hadiths, prophet muhammad and allah does not turn someone into a stereotype. Yet one may ask, but still why ridicule? Because ridicule is a good way to bring out fallacies, inconsistencies and injustices in a system/situation/ideology to the notice of general public. Ridicule and satire have played an important role in engaging meaningful and educative discussions in the world. e.g. George Orwell's Animal Farm, 1984 >>You seem to have at least some kind of issue with that otherwise why would you feel the need to ridicule some world views in the way you did right now? I believe to the core of my heart (as you have also pointed out) that most Muslim people are good and humanists but many of them are blinded by their faith and by their leaders' incessant efforts to keep them blinded and use them to wage wars. Will a Islamic society ever allow people to openly claim they are homosexuals and then to live peacefully and to work/travel at public places? I want the Muslims to take a notice of the fallacies, the inconsistencies and ultimately the evil found in Islam's core. I wish to bring out the evil aspects of Islam, so that Muslims can get rid of those aspects from their religion and reform it. >>A first and very important step towards that direction would be the acknowledgement that not all religious states are inherently bad or that religion is the problem that we face. I think it's pretty obvious by now that we mainly face the problem of an unfair distribution of wealth and power. Look at the US and what is happening there right now. Or are you there suggesting a connection with religion as well? I disagree with few points here. I take issue with religions. Religions have known to cause a lot of human suffering essentially because they harbour/encourage a lot of hatred towards the unbelievers/apostates. Another issue I have with religions is that they encourage/coerce people to believe in various superstitions and evil things. Beliefs in themselves are not so much of a problem for a society. The real problems caused by religions are when they encourage/coerce believers to act according to those evil beliefs to force the non-believers to toe the line or to get rid of the non-believers/apostates. Distribution of wealth and power is an important issue too but not the only issue. Also many religions finally boil down to political-power-games, and hence can be exploitative in this respect too. Christianity was very adept at this game, and was very exploitative and it was only after Christianity was rendered toothless the western world became more just and humane. Islam is also very adept at this power game and unfortunately even today is not rendered as toothless as it should have been. No doubt the current situation in US bad for some people from a financial viewpoint, but still life in US is much better than that in religious societies. Again I wish you to consider the case of homosexuals. But I am seeing that the Islamists are making more and ever more demands to accommodate their barbaric/ridiculous Islamic law (sharia) in the western democracies. This is scary. I hope the people realize this and stop succumbing to the demands of Islamists and instead engage in dialogue with those Muslims which are open to dialogues. [1] http://cheznews.com/2016/09/13/isis-slaughter-prisoners-upside-down-from-meat-hooks-like-sheeps-to-celebrate-eid-al-adha/ http://cheznews.com/2016/09/13/isis-slaughter-prisoners-upsi...