4 ms·

This has been the promise of "smart-grid" attached devices; the implementation hasn't caught up with the dream yet, but in theory, yeah, there are a lot of very

by azernik 10y ago

This has been the promise of "smart-grid" attached devices; the implementation hasn't caught up with the dream yet, but in theory, yeah, there are a lot of very elastic loads that can be used to smooth out the demand curve, or to match a jittery supply curve.

TeMPOraL 10y ago
It ain't gonna work if you need people watching the electricity prices and deciding what to do. It need to be devices talking directly to the power grid. And that need standards for things like communication protocols. Does anyone here know how are those coming along?
- WalterBright 10y ago
  > And that need standards for things like communication protocols. All that is needed is a way to get the spot price of electricity from the internet, similar to how I can get the current temperature in Anchorage. Devices don't need to talk to the power grid.
  - wyldfire 10y ago
    Moving electricity is "hard" so effectively there are many marketplaces in which the spot price is different. A natural design that's been considered/proposed is to get that info directly from the power utility itself.
    - WalterBright 10y ago
      If I can get the temperature online for my neighborhood (I can), then how can it be hard to get the local spot electricity price online? I don't see anything unnatural or difficult about this. No infrastructure changes are needed.
      - wyldfire 10y ago
        What's the behavior of the system when the home cannot access the marketplace via their normal ISP? I think power utilities don't want to bind their QoS fate to a company outside of their control or specification.
        WalterBright 10y ago
        Um, if it can't connect to the internet, it reverts to the default behavior it has now? Or it could revert to the pattern seen yesterday? Besides, an internet connection is critical infrastructure for about everything else. What's so special about this?
  - michaelt 10y ago
    If you're going to be billed by the minute, presumably you won't be taking meter readings manually, so your meter will be connected to some sort of communications network anyway. And if you're /not/ getting billed by the minute, what's in it for the buyer to choose an AC that sometimes turns itself off?
    - WalterBright 10y ago
      The power company has been upgrading the meters for years to support variable pricing so they can bill by the minute. None of what I've proposed is in any way a difficult or expensive problem to solve. Of course, the power company having billing by the minute will then create the incentive for such an A/C. That's the whole point!

by azernik 10y ago

TeMPOraL 10y ago

It ain't gonna work if you need people watching the electricity prices and deciding what to do. It need to be devices talking directly to the power grid. And that need standards for things like communication protocols. Does anyone here know how are those coming along?

WalterBright 10y ago
> And that need standards for things like communication protocols. All that is needed is a way to get the spot price of electricity from the internet, similar to how I can get the current temperature in Anchorage. Devices don't need to talk to the power grid.
- wyldfire 10y ago
  Moving electricity is "hard" so effectively there are many marketplaces in which the spot price is different. A natural design that's been considered/proposed is to get that info directly from the power utility itself.
  - WalterBright 10y ago
    If I can get the temperature online for my neighborhood (I can), then how can it be hard to get the local spot electricity price online? I don't see anything unnatural or difficult about this. No infrastructure changes are needed.
    - wyldfire 10y ago
      What's the behavior of the system when the home cannot access the marketplace via their normal ISP? I think power utilities don't want to bind their QoS fate to a company outside of their control or specification.
      - WalterBright 10y ago
        Um, if it can't connect to the internet, it reverts to the default behavior it has now? Or it could revert to the pattern seen yesterday? Besides, an internet connection is critical infrastructure for about everything else. What's so special about this?
- michaelt 10y ago
  If you're going to be billed by the minute, presumably you won't be taking meter readings manually, so your meter will be connected to some sort of communications network anyway. And if you're /not/ getting billed by the minute, what's in it for the buyer to choose an AC that sometimes turns itself off?
  - WalterBright 10y ago
    The power company has been upgrading the meters for years to support variable pricing so they can bill by the minute. None of what I've proposed is in any way a difficult or expensive problem to solve. Of course, the power company having billing by the minute will then create the incentive for such an A/C. That's the whole point!