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I have now and I fail to make a connection to the argument that I was making. Could you elaborate in which way you think it's applicable? My argument was that

by ersii 10y ago

I have now and I fail to make a connection to the argument that I was making. Could you elaborate in which way you think it's applicable? My argument was that the non-regulatory/voluntary solution would be for customers to demand from manufacturers/sellers to provide nutritional data, else they'd contact/buy from another manufacturer/seller.

Noseshine 10y ago
> But isn't the non-regulatory solution here to just not buy products > without nutritional data if so? The point is the consumer does not have as much power as you think. Because consumers act as individuals and not as a group (prisoners dilemma etc.), consumers do not nearly have as much information as the seller, for a consumer the particular issues is one of millions he's supposed to take care of (save the rain forest by buying these but not these, be politically active here and here and here and again and again and again, inform yourself about these 1,000 products that you regularly buy, etc. etc. etc.). So the race to the bottom and offering the lowest common denominator is what happens, not "competition ensures we get the best". Customer choice and competition between sellers are only two among many many more forces. It works in the simplistic model of how "capitalism" is supposed to work because - it's a model.
- ersii 10y ago
  Thanks for elaborating, I do appreciate that. I unfortunately don't see how that changes anything I've said. My only contribution was to offer a supposedly non-regulatory solution could be, I have put no value in if it's a good or bad solution. Given your feedback, I take it that you do not consider it to be a good solution - that is fine. To discuss your feedback, I do agree that there can be and often are information shortages on both the buying and selling side, although we do seem to disagree on the influence individual and group choices (ie. power) can have or have, where I think they're more powerful and influential than what you might think. When it comes to group choices, there have been many successful purchasing associations and voluntary certification organizations through time.

by ersii 10y ago

Noseshine 10y ago

> But isn't the non-regulatory solution here to just not buy products > without nutritional data if so? The point is the consumer does not have as much power as you think. Because consumers act as individuals and not as a group (prisoners dilemma etc.), consumers do not nearly have as much information as the seller, for a consumer the particular issues is one of millions he's supposed to take care of (save the rain forest by buying these but not these, be politically active here and here and here and again and again and again, inform yourself about these 1,000 products that you regularly buy, etc. etc. etc.). So the race to the bottom and offering the lowest common denominator is what happens, not "competition ensures we get the best". Customer choice and competition between sellers are only two among many many more forces. It works in the simplistic model of how "capitalism" is supposed to work because - it's a model.

ersii 10y ago
Thanks for elaborating, I do appreciate that. I unfortunately don't see how that changes anything I've said. My only contribution was to offer a supposedly non-regulatory solution could be, I have put no value in if it's a good or bad solution. Given your feedback, I take it that you do not consider it to be a good solution - that is fine. To discuss your feedback, I do agree that there can be and often are information shortages on both the buying and selling side, although we do seem to disagree on the influence individual and group choices (ie. power) can have or have, where I think they're more powerful and influential than what you might think. When it comes to group choices, there have been many successful purchasing associations and voluntary certification organizations through time.