3 ms·

Too many variables to be able to suggest a total rate (depends on how much work there is, in addition to the other factors listed). You are probably looking at

by dotBen 17y ago

Too many variables to be able to suggest a total rate (depends on how much work there is, in addition to the other factors listed). You are probably looking at the equivalent of $100-200/hr for good development, with the higher end for people located in SF. If you are going to out-source development, and you have a design/product background, I would build out a product spec and even a draft list of stories into Pivotal Tracker. It will help you define with your contractor what you want but also help to estimate total job time -- and that will help you arrive at a budget, based on the above hourly rate. [If you don't have a design/product background (or are not a developer yourself) then the success of outsourced is probably going to be mixed] I also tend to shy away from fixed bid because it doesn't work with an agile approach. You may not know completely what you want and as you get building and can get a better picture, being able to add extra components into the mix will cause friction with a fixed bid contract. Better to agree a budget so that everyone is clear what the limits and goal posts are.

gte910h 17y ago
>I also tend to shy away from fixed bid because it doesn't work with an agile approach. You may not know completely what you want and as you get building and can get a better picture, being able to add extra components into the mix will cause friction with a fixed bid contract. Fixed bid works just fine with an agile approach. You just start with a very small core project, then iterate upwards with follow on projects. This is especially important for the Apple App Store because there is no other way to know if your app will be approved. Fixed bid is sometimes more expensive due to the "risk eating" the developers are taking off your hands, but agility isn't usually the issue with developers who are otherwise good. We counsel clients to start with a small fixed bid project then use hourly or follow on projects to change the program to a particular place they want to go.
- jrockway 17y ago
  I like this advice. Usually developers are wary of fixed-bid, because the client tends to want to tack on a bunch of "oh, and"s, and they end up spending a lot of hours working for free. People commissioning software, on the other hand, are worried about whether or not 0 to working prototype will take more hours than they are willing to pay for. Your system seems to keep everyone in their comfort zone. No uncertainty for either party. (Except the usual, "will they pay my invoice?" and "why isn't he replying to my email!?" that is implicit in any business transaction.)
  - gte910h 17y ago
    I talk a lot about how we do business here in my HN comments if you're more interested in the hows.
- faramarz 17y ago
  This is especially important for the Apple App Store because there is no other way to know if your app will be approved. This is HUGE! Do you believe a company can flourish just as an App store app. or is that just too risky. Would love to hear your personal opinion. I'm working on an enterprise solution, and it's reliance is completely on Apple's code-of-conduct.
  - danielh 17y ago
    I think if your whole business is based on one iPhone app, you are at high risk. Even if you get approved today, there is no guarantee that Apple doesn't change their mind tomorrow.
  - gte910h 17y ago
    My email is in my profile if you want to talk. The long and the short of it: You can flourish, but you can also get dragged along and then watch your app get shot like a dog after 6 months of being dragged through "maybe if you did this it would be okay" from the developer liaison people. If you'd like, I can call one of them and go "Hey, is this in any shaky territory you can think off of the top of your head" if you want me to. I talk a lot about the environment in my HN comments if you want to read about it. They're totally non-committal, but hey, they'll point out anything that sticks out. Then again, we're starting android development here too.... :OD.
    - faramarz 17y ago
      Check mail. Thanks!
  - hboon 17y ago
    If it's an enterprise solution, it doesn't have necessary have to go through App store, no?
    - faramarz 17y ago
      The native functionality is tied into the form factor. thats the biggest advantage to having a native app. In an ideal situation, i'll be giving out the iPad free, shipped with my App. already installed. the value proposition can be so huge that would offset the device cost. Something like this would fit our slogan iPad was made for our X, all the other goodies are just extra :P
frankus 17y ago
Damn, I guess I need to move to San Francisco. I don't have heaps of experience (a few apps in the store) but folks out here have balked at the $50-60/hour I've been charging.
- psyklic 17y ago
  A lot of people who aren't in tech will balk at hourly fees but not at fixed rates -- they like to know the total cost beforehand. Try drawing up a contract saying it will cost x dollars, up to y hours, and beyond that $z/hr.
- gte910h 17y ago
  2 tips: Learn to do fixed fee. Learn to do fixed fee and not get screwed.

by dotBen 17y ago

gte910h 17y ago

>I also tend to shy away from fixed bid because it doesn't work with an agile approach. You may not know completely what you want and as you get building and can get a better picture, being able to add extra components into the mix will cause friction with a fixed bid contract. Fixed bid works just fine with an agile approach. You just start with a very small core project, then iterate upwards with follow on projects. This is especially important for the Apple App Store because there is no other way to know if your app will be approved. Fixed bid is sometimes more expensive due to the "risk eating" the developers are taking off your hands, but agility isn't usually the issue with developers who are otherwise good. We counsel clients to start with a small fixed bid project then use hourly or follow on projects to change the program to a particular place they want to go.

jrockway 17y ago
I like this advice. Usually developers are wary of fixed-bid, because the client tends to want to tack on a bunch of "oh, and"s, and they end up spending a lot of hours working for free. People commissioning software, on the other hand, are worried about whether or not 0 to working prototype will take more hours than they are willing to pay for. Your system seems to keep everyone in their comfort zone. No uncertainty for either party. (Except the usual, "will they pay my invoice?" and "why isn't he replying to my email!?" that is implicit in any business transaction.)
- gte910h 17y ago
  I talk a lot about how we do business here in my HN comments if you're more interested in the hows.
faramarz 17y ago
This is especially important for the Apple App Store because there is no other way to know if your app will be approved. This is HUGE! Do you believe a company can flourish just as an App store app. or is that just too risky. Would love to hear your personal opinion. I'm working on an enterprise solution, and it's reliance is completely on Apple's code-of-conduct.
- danielh 17y ago
  I think if your whole business is based on one iPhone app, you are at high risk. Even if you get approved today, there is no guarantee that Apple doesn't change their mind tomorrow.
- gte910h 17y ago
  My email is in my profile if you want to talk. The long and the short of it: You can flourish, but you can also get dragged along and then watch your app get shot like a dog after 6 months of being dragged through "maybe if you did this it would be okay" from the developer liaison people. If you'd like, I can call one of them and go "Hey, is this in any shaky territory you can think off of the top of your head" if you want me to. I talk a lot about the environment in my HN comments if you want to read about it. They're totally non-committal, but hey, they'll point out anything that sticks out. Then again, we're starting android development here too.... :OD.
  - faramarz 17y ago
    Check mail. Thanks!
- hboon 17y ago
  If it's an enterprise solution, it doesn't have necessary have to go through App store, no?
  - faramarz 17y ago
    The native functionality is tied into the form factor. thats the biggest advantage to having a native app. In an ideal situation, i'll be giving out the iPad free, shipped with my App. already installed. the value proposition can be so huge that would offset the device cost. Something like this would fit our slogan iPad was made for our X, all the other goodies are just extra :P

frankus 17y ago

Damn, I guess I need to move to San Francisco. I don't have heaps of experience (a few apps in the store) but folks out here have balked at the $50-60/hour I've been charging.

psyklic 17y ago
A lot of people who aren't in tech will balk at hourly fees but not at fixed rates -- they like to know the total cost beforehand. Try drawing up a contract saying it will cost x dollars, up to y hours, and beyond that $z/hr.
gte910h 17y ago
2 tips: Learn to do fixed fee. Learn to do fixed fee and not get screwed.