5 ms·

The poster levels accusations at members of GNU but does not substantiate them with evidence (at least in that thread which I can see). I should hope we still l

The poster levels accusations at members of GNU but does not substantiate them with evidence (at least in that thread which I can see). I should hope we still live in a society where the accused are innocent until proven guilty. Can we see some evidence before any conclusions are drawn? If it is just one member of GNU who acted inappropriately then I also have to ask why the poster is attacking the whole organization. Evidence ought to be presented for GNU's complicity in any sort of bias as well.

sneak 10y ago
No one is being tried here. That sort of black and white thinking has no place in the real world. If you like it, go get a law degree and spend your days in courtrooms.
- thescribe 10y ago
  I feel like innocent until proven guilty works for most things because it is a judicious way to look at the world, it avoids witch hunts. The world is black and white, pretending otherwise is where we get into trouble.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
CJefferson 10y ago
If someone punches hour friend in the face, you should not have to wait for public evidence and a court conviction before you stop working with them. More evidence would be nice, but libreboot as a project can choose to leave GNU for reasons they know. One obvious reason they are not providing more evidence is that I am sure it is going to lead to large amounts of public abuse of the person who was fired.
- michaelmrose 10y ago
  Not only do we not know if the person was fired for discriminatory reasons the poster likely cannot even know for sure why this person was fired. All we see is poster acting very unprofessionally. Perhaps these accusations will be proven true on a later occasion. More likely even if true nothing will be proved either way and both poster, the person that was fired and the employer all end up looking poorly. Perhaps this could have been thought out better.
- scrollaway 10y ago
  If I'm reading the parent post correctly, it is calling for evidence for the sake of everybody else. Libreboot should of course be free to leave GNU/FSF regardless of the reasons behind it, but Leah accused them of extremely inappropriate and potentially illegal behaviour. So yeah, it's normal to ask for evidence. And I don't know about you, but if events actually went down as described, I'd want to know.
- wruza 10y ago
  As personal reaction it may be reasonable. As a reaction from maintainer of the software piece, that's childish. Mailing list contains no details, just literally "Fuck GNU, Fuck FSF". She can tweet, post it in facebook, personal blog, it is okay. But when it affects software, this is a sign that she cannot separate conceptions. Your users are never guilty (except when you write extremist-oriented software), why should they trust someone with that fuck-fuck on mailing list reputation? I hope they both will get proper respect in this situation, if her claims are true. But this is another coin into 'don't use gnu if possible' rule.
  - HelloNurse 10y ago
    Suddenly not wanting anything to do with the FSF because of extremely bad news is a perfectly reasonable personal reaction. Withdrawing Libreboot from the GNU project is not only a meaningful formal step but also a practical implementation of that decision, because it means eliminating reasons to interact with FSF members.
- apatters 10y ago
  I agree that the poster is entitled to leave GNU for whatever reasons she likes. However, in the process she also made defamatory statements against GNU, with a clear intent of harming GNU. These are the statements which ought to be evaluated against evidence before drawing any conclusions.

sneak 10y ago

No one is being tried here. That sort of black and white thinking has no place in the real world. If you like it, go get a law degree and spend your days in courtrooms.

thescribe 10y ago
I feel like innocent until proven guilty works for most things because it is a judicious way to look at the world, it avoids witch hunts. The world is black and white, pretending otherwise is where we get into trouble.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

CJefferson 10y ago

If someone punches hour friend in the face, you should not have to wait for public evidence and a court conviction before you stop working with them. More evidence would be nice, but libreboot as a project can choose to leave GNU for reasons they know. One obvious reason they are not providing more evidence is that I am sure it is going to lead to large amounts of public abuse of the person who was fired.

michaelmrose 10y ago
Not only do we not know if the person was fired for discriminatory reasons the poster likely cannot even know for sure why this person was fired. All we see is poster acting very unprofessionally. Perhaps these accusations will be proven true on a later occasion. More likely even if true nothing will be proved either way and both poster, the person that was fired and the employer all end up looking poorly. Perhaps this could have been thought out better.
scrollaway 10y ago
If I'm reading the parent post correctly, it is calling for evidence for the sake of everybody else. Libreboot should of course be free to leave GNU/FSF regardless of the reasons behind it, but Leah accused them of extremely inappropriate and potentially illegal behaviour. So yeah, it's normal to ask for evidence. And I don't know about you, but if events actually went down as described, I'd want to know.
wruza 10y ago
As personal reaction it may be reasonable. As a reaction from maintainer of the software piece, that's childish. Mailing list contains no details, just literally "Fuck GNU, Fuck FSF". She can tweet, post it in facebook, personal blog, it is okay. But when it affects software, this is a sign that she cannot separate conceptions. Your users are never guilty (except when you write extremist-oriented software), why should they trust someone with that fuck-fuck on mailing list reputation? I hope they both will get proper respect in this situation, if her claims are true. But this is another coin into 'don't use gnu if possible' rule.
- HelloNurse 10y ago
  Suddenly not wanting anything to do with the FSF because of extremely bad news is a perfectly reasonable personal reaction. Withdrawing Libreboot from the GNU project is not only a meaningful formal step but also a practical implementation of that decision, because it means eliminating reasons to interact with FSF members.
apatters 10y ago
I agree that the poster is entitled to leave GNU for whatever reasons she likes. However, in the process she also made defamatory statements against GNU, with a clear intent of harming GNU. These are the statements which ought to be evaluated against evidence before drawing any conclusions.