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What would be the boring technology to pick for starting a web + backend project today?

by deegles 10y ago

n0us 10y ago
python/ruby/java on backend. React/Ember/Angular on front end. The core libraries are relatively stable, it's mostly supporting libs that will burn you if you aren't careful.
wyager 10y ago
Probably PHP and plain JS, which is why I think that argument doesn't make sense. New web stuff is currently so much better than the old alternative that dealing with tumultuous stability is often worth it.
- tomca32 10y ago
  I think there's a middle road. What you're mentioning is pretty extreme. Rails/Django/Spring and Angular/Ember are all considered boring and very stable while not nearly as outdated as your example.
- HereBeBeasties 10y ago
  Is it? I used to happily make very complex sites using Apache Wicket on top of Java. It lets you make composable, extensible components (including inherited markup). It is type safe (the cools kids are finally rediscovering how important this is for maintainability with Flow & TypeScript). It supports replacing components using AJAX. Sure, it's not great for client-side SVG rendering or the various other cool things you can do with React and co, but hand on heart, I can't honestly say I find doing all this stuff in JavaScript to be "so much better". Quite the opposite for the majority of intranet-type sites, in fact.
- wpietri 10y ago
  Care to show me your math on that over a 10-year time scale? I'd be curious even to see it for the technologies you mention. But as others point out, there are plenty of things newer than PHP that have become pretty boring.
feider 10y ago
java
parasubvert 10y ago
Several boring but good things Spring Boot (Java) is really simple and boring yet a lot of capabilities underneath Also, ASP.NET (c#) - similar deal Django or Flask (Python) Backbone.js, jQuery, Bootstrap (JS front end) Express (JS backend) Sinatra (Ruby) PHP 6 Maybe Angular or Ember or even basic React+Flux in the front end if you can contain your enthusiasm For hosting, find a boring PaaS and avoid the container mud wrestling For pity's sake use PostgreSQL or MySQL, MongoDB burns
- sjnair96 10y ago
  Django or Flask (Python) Express (JS backend) Sinatra (Ruby) What would you suggest out of these for quick prototyping and just side projects?
  - Godel_unicode 10y ago
    Postgres and Flask. Create it as a package, not an individual module. Front-end it with gunicorn and nginx. All monitored by supervisord. https://realpython.com/blog/python/kickstarting-flask-on-ubuntu-setup-and-deployment/ https://realpython.com/blog/python/kickstarting-flask-on-ubu...
  - kofejnik 10y ago
    Flask is awesome, sure, but you will have to do a lot of mundane stuff with Psycopg2 (may all gods help you if you choose to dive into sqlalchemy!). OTOH, Rails ORM is awesomely simple and just works for 95% of the cases.
  - int_19h 10y ago
    Bottle (Python). It's very minimalist and tries very hard to get out of your way, but it usually provides enough for prototyping and quick spur-of-the-moment things. The latter is also when you might appreciate the fact that its markup language is really just embedded Python (PHP style) - you're trusted to not abuse the power, but you define what "abuse" is.
- needcaffeine 10y ago
  There is no PHP6. Went from 5.6 to 7.
tomca32 10y ago
Rails on the backend. Angular on the frontend. Both are big, stable frameworks with tons of support, plugins, thousands of tutorials / SO Q&As. Whatever problem you encounter with those, somebody already solved it. This is the case with any mature framework. Rails and Angular just happen to be my favorites, but Django, or Spring and Ember can probably work just as well.
- majc2 10y ago
  Angular 1 to Angular 2 anybody!?
- elliotec 10y ago
  If you are using Rails, Angular is rarely necessary from my experience. Even if you have a lot of SPA-type functionality, jQuery can handle it pretty well in the asset pipeline.
  - tomca32 10y ago
    I agree with that. I felt that the question really asked what frontend boring framework would I choose, but you are right. I try to avoid having to put up Angular or anything big on the frontend and just scrape by with jQuery. However, when the interactions are supposed to be "rich" and have a lot of animations, drag/dropping, complex forms that validate on the fly, etc etc...things can get really complex. Then you're back to the old dilemma: you are either going to introduce a full-fledged framework, or write one yourself. In those situations, I pick Angular. - Angular 2 also looks fine, but that defeats the question which asked about "boring", stable frameworks
elliotec 10y ago
Rails and jQuery. Seriously. This is at the top of list of the most maintainable, well documented web app methods that exist.

What would be the boring technology to pick for starting a web + backend project today?

by deegles 10y ago

What would be the boring technology to pick for starting a web + backend project today?

n0us 10y ago

python/ruby/java on backend. React/Ember/Angular on front end. The core libraries are relatively stable, it's mostly supporting libs that will burn you if you aren't careful.

wyager 10y ago

Probably PHP and plain JS, which is why I think that argument doesn't make sense. New web stuff is currently so much better than the old alternative that dealing with tumultuous stability is often worth it.

tomca32 10y ago
I think there's a middle road. What you're mentioning is pretty extreme. Rails/Django/Spring and Angular/Ember are all considered boring and very stable while not nearly as outdated as your example.
HereBeBeasties 10y ago
Is it? I used to happily make very complex sites using Apache Wicket on top of Java. It lets you make composable, extensible components (including inherited markup). It is type safe (the cools kids are finally rediscovering how important this is for maintainability with Flow & TypeScript). It supports replacing components using AJAX. Sure, it's not great for client-side SVG rendering or the various other cool things you can do with React and co, but hand on heart, I can't honestly say I find doing all this stuff in JavaScript to be "so much better". Quite the opposite for the majority of intranet-type sites, in fact.
wpietri 10y ago
Care to show me your math on that over a 10-year time scale? I'd be curious even to see it for the technologies you mention. But as others point out, there are plenty of things newer than PHP that have become pretty boring.

feider 10y ago

java

parasubvert 10y ago

Several boring but good things Spring Boot (Java) is really simple and boring yet a lot of capabilities underneath Also, ASP.NET (c#) - similar deal Django or Flask (Python) Backbone.js, jQuery, Bootstrap (JS front end) Express (JS backend) Sinatra (Ruby) PHP 6 Maybe Angular or Ember or even basic React+Flux in the front end if you can contain your enthusiasm For hosting, find a boring PaaS and avoid the container mud wrestling For pity's sake use PostgreSQL or MySQL, MongoDB burns

sjnair96 10y ago
Django or Flask (Python) Express (JS backend) Sinatra (Ruby) What would you suggest out of these for quick prototyping and just side projects?
- Godel_unicode 10y ago
  Postgres and Flask. Create it as a package, not an individual module. Front-end it with gunicorn and nginx. All monitored by supervisord. https://realpython.com/blog/python/kickstarting-flask-on-ubuntu-setup-and-deployment/ https://realpython.com/blog/python/kickstarting-flask-on-ubu...
- kofejnik 10y ago
  Flask is awesome, sure, but you will have to do a lot of mundane stuff with Psycopg2 (may all gods help you if you choose to dive into sqlalchemy!). OTOH, Rails ORM is awesomely simple and just works for 95% of the cases.
- int_19h 10y ago
  Bottle (Python). It's very minimalist and tries very hard to get out of your way, but it usually provides enough for prototyping and quick spur-of-the-moment things. The latter is also when you might appreciate the fact that its markup language is really just embedded Python (PHP style) - you're trusted to not abuse the power, but you define what "abuse" is.
needcaffeine 10y ago
There is no PHP6. Went from 5.6 to 7.

tomca32 10y ago

Rails on the backend. Angular on the frontend. Both are big, stable frameworks with tons of support, plugins, thousands of tutorials / SO Q&As. Whatever problem you encounter with those, somebody already solved it. This is the case with any mature framework. Rails and Angular just happen to be my favorites, but Django, or Spring and Ember can probably work just as well.

majc2 10y ago
Angular 1 to Angular 2 anybody!?
elliotec 10y ago
If you are using Rails, Angular is rarely necessary from my experience. Even if you have a lot of SPA-type functionality, jQuery can handle it pretty well in the asset pipeline.
- tomca32 10y ago
  I agree with that. I felt that the question really asked what frontend boring framework would I choose, but you are right. I try to avoid having to put up Angular or anything big on the frontend and just scrape by with jQuery. However, when the interactions are supposed to be "rich" and have a lot of animations, drag/dropping, complex forms that validate on the fly, etc etc...things can get really complex. Then you're back to the old dilemma: you are either going to introduce a full-fledged framework, or write one yourself. In those situations, I pick Angular. - Angular 2 also looks fine, but that defeats the question which asked about "boring", stable frameworks

elliotec 10y ago

Rails and jQuery. Seriously. This is at the top of list of the most maintainable, well documented web app methods that exist.