5 ms·

Old apple stuff isn't my thing but I applaud any efforts to preserve our history. Jason makes a number of good points about the sorry state of modern OSes in hi

by endgame 10y ago

Old apple stuff isn't my thing but I applaud any efforts to preserve our history. Jason makes a number of good points about the sorry state of modern OSes in his article, and it's worth a read for that alone.

userbinator 10y ago
Along the same lines there's an "unofficial service pack" for Windows 98SE which fixes a lot of little issues and actually allows running some substantially newer applications on the 18-year-old OS. I wouldn't be surprised if 2K/XP get the same treatment, and in fact I know it's already happening. It's sometimes amazing what the community can come up with.
- RachelF 10y ago
  I wish one could force vendors to open source operating systems they no longer support.
  - chongli 10y ago
    Oh yes! Then we could get the source to Mac OS 9 and bring it into the modern era! Spatial metaphor forever!
    - firebones 10y ago
      Imagine a fork of various Apple OS's that took skeuomorphic interfaces to their logical conclusion! We need a name for this: an open set of parallel computing universes. Maybe OpenCandide: The Best of All Possible Worlds. (Ironic misinterpretation of the phrase intentional.)
      - chongli 10y ago
        I'm not sure if you were implying otherwise or not, but: spatial metaphor file managers are not skeuomorphic. Skeuomorphism strictly encompasses non-functional interface elements, such as faux-leather stitching on Apple's old address book application. The spatial metaphor Finder in OS 9 was 100% functional. The way it remembered all of the details (size, layout, position, display mode) of each window and the way each window had an unbreakable 1 to 1 connection to a folder made it a joy to use. It allowed the user to identify what window belonged to a folder at a glance and to be able to set up a whole workspace arrangement and have it be remembered automatically by the Finder.
    - stuaxo 10y ago
      Back when Nautilus went spacial, I took the time to learn it, and quite liked it. Also - being able to set wallpapers in the windows, set the icons to whatever size all lent to the spacial experience.
  - 0xcde4c3db 10y ago
    Indeed; what happened to systems like DR DOS, BeOS, and AmigaOS is a disgrace. DR DOS is still "supported" in the sense that you can pay for a copy from the ostensible rights holder, but the company doesn't appear to provide any actual development or support services, and it looks like they haven't issued a press release since 2004. DR DOS source is also out there, but only licensed for noncommercial use.
    - stuaxo 10y ago
      I was trying to look at this the other day... who actually owns DrDOS these days ? Also, where is the newest version of the source ?
      - 0xcde4c3db 10y ago
        As far as I can tell, it's owned by DR DOS Inc. which also had a d/b/a "DeviceLogics" that now seems to be defunct (inasmuch as devicelogics.com now redirects to drdos.com). However, the status isn't exactly obvious to me. The only source release I know of that is still readily downloadable is at drdos.net, which is version 7.01.
  - kalleboo 10y ago
    It would be interesting to have a system where getting a software patent required publishing working code under public domain. Then when the patent expires, it's open for all.
    - digi_owl 10y ago
      By the time (20 years) a patent expires, it is likely that whatever it covers is obsolete.
      - WorldMaker 10y ago
        Which is arguably the point: the patent term should cover the likely amount of time that commercial exploitation is most advantaged by a government granted temporary monopoly. Obsolescence is pretty clearly a point where commercial exploitation is (severely) disadvantaged. The goal for patents was that for that temporary leg up (and today's 20 years starts to feel a lot less temporary) the company had to make all the information and science and schematics public domain. It's not a bad idea that if software/software algorithms are patentable the actual code should fall under that public domain disclosure. The balancing act that remains is the question of how much code is "schematics" and how much of it is "final product" and how much protection products deserve versus schematics...
- rsync 10y ago
  "I wouldn't be surprised if 2K/XP get the same treatment" What sticks out in my mind about win2k was the lack of USB support. I am aware of a third party, commercial option to add USB support to win2k - is there a free/open alternative ?
  - hollander 10y ago
    W2K did have USB support, but probably does not have USB 2 or USB3 support.
    - userbinator 10y ago
      Not 3, but USB 2.0 has been around since 2000, so definitely within the support period of 2K (and 98SE/ME as well.) The drivers for the bus/controller are officially available, but finding USB device drivers for newer devices that work, however, is a different matter.
    - rsync 10y ago
      Ohhh ... I think I must have been thinking of NT4 which did not have USB support: http://smallvoid.com/article/winnt4-usb-driver.html http://smallvoid.com/article/winnt4-usb-driver.html
- rasz_pl 10y ago
  >I wouldn't be surprised if 2K/XP get the same treatment there was http://opennt.net/ http://opennt.net/ (https://www.betaarchive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=33250 https://www.betaarchive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=33250) rebuilding NT/XP using leaked code, but it went dark, so did the github repo hosting leaked code edit: snapshot just before it went dark: http://web.archive.org/web/20151203004051/http://www.opennt.net/ http://web.archive.org/web/20151203004051/http://www.opennt.... http://web.archive.org/web/20151203004100/http://file.opennt.net/ http://web.archive.org/web/20151203004100/http://file.opennt...
firebones 10y ago
Cool thing: author of the article publishes his own release notes/announcement on archive.org: https://archive.org/details/ProDOS_2_4 https://archive.org/details/ProDOS_2_4 This should be a thing: for the stuff that matters, that we want to survive, make sure to cross-post on archive.org and then let's get us a sustainable IPFS network going.
- qwertyuiop924 10y ago
  Well of course he x-posts to archive.org. He's Jason Scott. Am I the only one who didn't initially realize that Jason Scott and Sketch The Cow were one and the same? I mean, I even know the origin of the username. It seems like the sort of thing I should have realized.

by endgame 10y ago

userbinator 10y ago

Along the same lines there's an "unofficial service pack" for Windows 98SE which fixes a lot of little issues and actually allows running some substantially newer applications on the 18-year-old OS. I wouldn't be surprised if 2K/XP get the same treatment, and in fact I know it's already happening. It's sometimes amazing what the community can come up with.

RachelF 10y ago
I wish one could force vendors to open source operating systems they no longer support.
- chongli 10y ago
  Oh yes! Then we could get the source to Mac OS 9 and bring it into the modern era! Spatial metaphor forever!
  - firebones 10y ago
    Imagine a fork of various Apple OS's that took skeuomorphic interfaces to their logical conclusion! We need a name for this: an open set of parallel computing universes. Maybe OpenCandide: The Best of All Possible Worlds. (Ironic misinterpretation of the phrase intentional.)
    - chongli 10y ago
      I'm not sure if you were implying otherwise or not, but: spatial metaphor file managers are not skeuomorphic. Skeuomorphism strictly encompasses non-functional interface elements, such as faux-leather stitching on Apple's old address book application. The spatial metaphor Finder in OS 9 was 100% functional. The way it remembered all of the details (size, layout, position, display mode) of each window and the way each window had an unbreakable 1 to 1 connection to a folder made it a joy to use. It allowed the user to identify what window belonged to a folder at a glance and to be able to set up a whole workspace arrangement and have it be remembered automatically by the Finder.
  - stuaxo 10y ago
    Back when Nautilus went spacial, I took the time to learn it, and quite liked it. Also - being able to set wallpapers in the windows, set the icons to whatever size all lent to the spacial experience.
- 0xcde4c3db 10y ago
  Indeed; what happened to systems like DR DOS, BeOS, and AmigaOS is a disgrace. DR DOS is still "supported" in the sense that you can pay for a copy from the ostensible rights holder, but the company doesn't appear to provide any actual development or support services, and it looks like they haven't issued a press release since 2004. DR DOS source is also out there, but only licensed for noncommercial use.
  - stuaxo 10y ago
    I was trying to look at this the other day... who actually owns DrDOS these days ? Also, where is the newest version of the source ?
    - 0xcde4c3db 10y ago
      As far as I can tell, it's owned by DR DOS Inc. which also had a d/b/a "DeviceLogics" that now seems to be defunct (inasmuch as devicelogics.com now redirects to drdos.com). However, the status isn't exactly obvious to me. The only source release I know of that is still readily downloadable is at drdos.net, which is version 7.01.
- kalleboo 10y ago
  It would be interesting to have a system where getting a software patent required publishing working code under public domain. Then when the patent expires, it's open for all.
  - digi_owl 10y ago
    By the time (20 years) a patent expires, it is likely that whatever it covers is obsolete.
    - WorldMaker 10y ago
      Which is arguably the point: the patent term should cover the likely amount of time that commercial exploitation is most advantaged by a government granted temporary monopoly. Obsolescence is pretty clearly a point where commercial exploitation is (severely) disadvantaged. The goal for patents was that for that temporary leg up (and today's 20 years starts to feel a lot less temporary) the company had to make all the information and science and schematics public domain. It's not a bad idea that if software/software algorithms are patentable the actual code should fall under that public domain disclosure. The balancing act that remains is the question of how much code is "schematics" and how much of it is "final product" and how much protection products deserve versus schematics...
rsync 10y ago
"I wouldn't be surprised if 2K/XP get the same treatment" What sticks out in my mind about win2k was the lack of USB support. I am aware of a third party, commercial option to add USB support to win2k - is there a free/open alternative ?
- hollander 10y ago
  W2K did have USB support, but probably does not have USB 2 or USB3 support.
  - userbinator 10y ago
    Not 3, but USB 2.0 has been around since 2000, so definitely within the support period of 2K (and 98SE/ME as well.) The drivers for the bus/controller are officially available, but finding USB device drivers for newer devices that work, however, is a different matter.
  - rsync 10y ago
    Ohhh ... I think I must have been thinking of NT4 which did not have USB support: http://smallvoid.com/article/winnt4-usb-driver.html http://smallvoid.com/article/winnt4-usb-driver.html
rasz_pl 10y ago
>I wouldn't be surprised if 2K/XP get the same treatment there was http://opennt.net/ http://opennt.net/ (https://www.betaarchive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=33250 https://www.betaarchive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=33250) rebuilding NT/XP using leaked code, but it went dark, so did the github repo hosting leaked code edit: snapshot just before it went dark: http://web.archive.org/web/20151203004051/http://www.opennt.net/ http://web.archive.org/web/20151203004051/http://www.opennt.... http://web.archive.org/web/20151203004100/http://file.opennt.net/ http://web.archive.org/web/20151203004100/http://file.opennt...

firebones 10y ago

Cool thing: author of the article publishes his own release notes/announcement on archive.org: https://archive.org/details/ProDOS_2_4 https://archive.org/details/ProDOS_2_4 This should be a thing: for the stuff that matters, that we want to survive, make sure to cross-post on archive.org and then let's get us a sustainable IPFS network going.

qwertyuiop924 10y ago
Well of course he x-posts to archive.org. He's Jason Scott. Am I the only one who didn't initially realize that Jason Scott and Sketch The Cow were one and the same? I mean, I even know the origin of the username. It seems like the sort of thing I should have realized.