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Tough call, but here's the reality of business: everyone ends up "lying", even the people who do their best to be honest (those tend to fall into the overconfid

Tough call, but here's the reality of business: everyone ends up "lying", even the people who do their best to be honest (those tend to fall into the overconfidence camp). Some people are just overconfident or have sunny reflections on the past, but everyone lies, and mostly about things of no consequence-- why they left their last job, who they know, their relative rank and responsibility in previous companies. I generally assume that it's okay to lie if it doesn't lead the other person into a decision that will bring them harm, so lies to inflate one's social standing are generally okay, but promises to deliver a product that one cannot I'd consider very unethical, because the other person is going to get burned when it doesn't come through. An obvious example is engaging in "creative career repair" with respect to previous job changes. Anyone who has spent 28 minutes in the professional world knows that most people do this and that it's generally innocuous. Everyone has a certain degree of the right to reinvent his or her own history. General rule: it's unethical to claim skills you don't have-- and it's also terrible for you because it means you're likely to fail at your next job; it's fine to upgrade titles, relative performance, terms of leaving, status within the group, and compensation to a reasonable degree (up to the maximum given to someone of your standing and seniority, e.g. claiming top bonus). Also, although I think it could be a tactical mistake, I'd have no problem with someone lying about having more VC interest in a venture than there actually is, in order to get better terms. This "lie" makes a good deal more attention-getting, but it's not going to make a bad deal look like a good one, except to a VC who doesn't do his own homework. (The danger is that the VC will scumbag you and, behind your back, call up the VC you said was interested.)

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goodside 17y ago
"I generally assume that it's okay to lie if it doesn't lead the other person into a decision that will bring them harm..." Humility is knowing you're not smart enough to know when other people are better off being lied to. Once you start justifying your lies as being helpful to the victims, you've crossed from malice to delusion. Further, you've just admitted on a public forum read by many with deep connections in the startup world (and others bright enough to crack whatever anonymity you think you have), that you're okay with lying to investors. This doesn't bode well for your career as a master fraud. With skills like these, the Dark Side doesn't have much to offer you. Please consider switching teams.
- pw0ncakes 17y ago
  I never claimed to be a master liar, and it should be obvious that I'm not one. I don't like doing it, as I find it distasteful, and I don't, but I recognize that certain kinds of material and social success will require deception for 99+% of people. Most people live in a world of fiction and react horribly to having that fiction refuted, which the truth often does. If you're willing to piss them off and have them hate or reject you (which I often am, because it's endlessly amusing to me) tell the truth to them. If you want smooth relationships with them, offer up a story. One of those fictions is "Society"; many people have a deep desire to believe that they're among an exclusive elite-- and those who are powerful have the means to persist in this semi-delusion-- and that this elite encompasses all people who are of any value-- this part is obviously ridiculous. If you ape their values and manners (spin a story; uphold the fiction) these people may let you into their club and you may benefit from their resources; if you upset their story with the truth (that most people of talent are not like them and have different values and backgrounds) they will either reject you or (if you pierce their shield of self-deception) become very angry. The former is more likely, but neither benefits you.
- devinj 17y ago
  "You're deluded and have ruined your entire career for good." Really? How kind of you.
lukev 17y ago
No. Everyone does not lie about those things. If I were to be in a relationship with you and I found out you were lying about this sort of thing I would be highly pissed.

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goodside 17y ago

"I generally assume that it's okay to lie if it doesn't lead the other person into a decision that will bring them harm..." Humility is knowing you're not smart enough to know when other people are better off being lied to. Once you start justifying your lies as being helpful to the victims, you've crossed from malice to delusion. Further, you've just admitted on a public forum read by many with deep connections in the startup world (and others bright enough to crack whatever anonymity you think you have), that you're okay with lying to investors. This doesn't bode well for your career as a master fraud. With skills like these, the Dark Side doesn't have much to offer you. Please consider switching teams.

pw0ncakes 17y ago
I never claimed to be a master liar, and it should be obvious that I'm not one. I don't like doing it, as I find it distasteful, and I don't, but I recognize that certain kinds of material and social success will require deception for 99+% of people. Most people live in a world of fiction and react horribly to having that fiction refuted, which the truth often does. If you're willing to piss them off and have them hate or reject you (which I often am, because it's endlessly amusing to me) tell the truth to them. If you want smooth relationships with them, offer up a story. One of those fictions is "Society"; many people have a deep desire to believe that they're among an exclusive elite-- and those who are powerful have the means to persist in this semi-delusion-- and that this elite encompasses all people who are of any value-- this part is obviously ridiculous. If you ape their values and manners (spin a story; uphold the fiction) these people may let you into their club and you may benefit from their resources; if you upset their story with the truth (that most people of talent are not like them and have different values and backgrounds) they will either reject you or (if you pierce their shield of self-deception) become very angry. The former is more likely, but neither benefits you.
devinj 17y ago
"You're deluded and have ruined your entire career for good." Really? How kind of you.

lukev 17y ago

No. Everyone does not lie about those things. If I were to be in a relationship with you and I found out you were lying about this sort of thing I would be highly pissed.