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It isn't an all or nothing. Snowden leaked information on a lot of different programs - some of them presumably weren't known to Congress, some were. It is know

by DSMan195276 10y ago

It isn't an all or nothing. Snowden leaked information on a lot of different programs - some of them presumably weren't known to Congress, some were. It is known that Snowden both leaked information on illegal activities and legal actives of the NSA. Leaking information about legal activities generally isn't protected by whistle-blowing laws or otherwise.

btilly 10y ago
The presumption that they weren't known is based on direct testimony to Congress from the CIA saying that they had no such program in place. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_R._Clapper#False_testimony_to_Congress_on_NSA_surveillance_programs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_R._Clapper#False_testimo... for verification. As for the rights of whistleblowers, the Obama administration has used the Espionage Act to go after whistleblowers more than all other previous administrations combined. Would YOU trust this administration if you thought they were doing wrong?
- wbl 10y ago
  Except that the HSCI had been briefed on the phone interception program in camera.
- DSMan195276 10y ago
  I wasn't saying anything against that - read my comment again ("It isn't an all or nothing. Snowden leaked information on lots of different programs ..."). What I'm saying is that Snowden leaked a lot more then just the fact that the NSA gathers data on US citizens. Some of that data was on legitimate NSA activities, which is why claiming he is purely a whistle-blower is a bit hard to do: Leaking the data on illegal NSA activities is a legitimate argument for a whistle-blower defense, leaking data on legal NSA activities is not. All I'm saying is that it is not a black and white issue. The reality is that even if you accept that he should have immunity for blowing the whistle on illegal NSA activities he revealed (As I do), the other things he did are still serious and it is hard to argue he should be pardoned in full for it. He could have only leaked information on the NSA illegal activities, but he didn't.
lawnchair_larry 10y ago
It doesn't matter if it's "legal." For example, the NSA stalked and hacked the personal property of multiple engineers at multiple telecom companies in multiple friendly countries, solely as a means to attack their employer in order to spy on their employer's customers. Attacking law abiding foreign civilians in friendly countries like Belgium and Germany is not somehow more ok than hacking Americans. Enough of this "it's only foreigners" nonsense.

btilly 10y ago

The presumption that they weren't known is based on direct testimony to Congress from the CIA saying that they had no such program in place. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_R._Clapper#False_testimony_to_Congress_on_NSA_surveillance_programs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_R._Clapper#False_testimo... for verification. As for the rights of whistleblowers, the Obama administration has used the Espionage Act to go after whistleblowers more than all other previous administrations combined. Would YOU trust this administration if you thought they were doing wrong?

wbl 10y ago
Except that the HSCI had been briefed on the phone interception program in camera.
DSMan195276 10y ago
I wasn't saying anything against that - read my comment again ("It isn't an all or nothing. Snowden leaked information on lots of different programs ..."). What I'm saying is that Snowden leaked a lot more then just the fact that the NSA gathers data on US citizens. Some of that data was on legitimate NSA activities, which is why claiming he is purely a whistle-blower is a bit hard to do: Leaking the data on illegal NSA activities is a legitimate argument for a whistle-blower defense, leaking data on legal NSA activities is not. All I'm saying is that it is not a black and white issue. The reality is that even if you accept that he should have immunity for blowing the whistle on illegal NSA activities he revealed (As I do), the other things he did are still serious and it is hard to argue he should be pardoned in full for it. He could have only leaked information on the NSA illegal activities, but he didn't.

lawnchair_larry 10y ago

It doesn't matter if it's "legal." For example, the NSA stalked and hacked the personal property of multiple engineers at multiple telecom companies in multiple friendly countries, solely as a means to attack their employer in order to spy on their employer's customers. Attacking law abiding foreign civilians in friendly countries like Belgium and Germany is not somehow more ok than hacking Americans. Enough of this "it's only foreigners" nonsense.