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I find it funny that no one yet has called you on your bullshit: Who the fuck is John Haymaker? There was no Haymaker CEO of Alcoa. You quote this person, and y

I find it funny that no one yet has called you on your bullshit: Who the fuck is John Haymaker? There was no Haymaker CEO of Alcoa. You quote this person, and you don't even know their first name? Sounds legit.

samstave 10y ago
He was president of ALCOA in the mid-80s -- I cant find him online - but I posted a link to his son's profile page who is an architect. John Haymaker, JR. I also make mention of my dads other best friend: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_S._Herrington https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_S._Herrington who happens to have a wiki page.... So, I dont know what to say about the fact that John SR doesnt have a page about him online as he was head of ALCOA in ~1985... not my job to prove shit to the internet.... if you dont like my quote - then move on and dont attack me for it.
- Retra 10y ago
  You are being attacked?
  - samstave 10y ago
    Aggressively debated then :-) I dont give a shit - but jesus, one quotes another from memory and shitstorm ensues... :) Whatever.
    - fsloth 10y ago
      No one is attacking you personally. A lot of people read HN for insightful or evidence backed commentary and the voting mechanism is there to maintain this quality. No one can quote your story and retain any credibility -to a third party relating your story sounds like this: "A dude in a web discussion forum claimed that a man who, based on his childhood memories, was a CEO at Alcor, said that...". It has degenerated to a gossip - something that is readily available elswhere. High quality diacussion, on the other hand, is hard to come by. It's okay to relate anecdotal experience - some these type of comments are really good - but the style in the comment should then reflect the fact that the claim cannot be validated in any concrete way.
      - samstave 10y ago
        Totally valid statement! I haven't been claiming otherwise. I proved who I was talking about, I stand by my statement and I believe that some HNers are dicks, period.
        fsloth 10y ago
        "I proved who I was talking about," No, you did not 'prove' with any value of proof anyone else here would recognize. None of us can know did that conversation happen, if it did, were they serious or joking,etc etc. There is no way any sensible person could integrate this into their theory of the world. Basically, unless you can provide evidence that is well known/scientifically rigorous/would hold in the court of law, what you wrote, is hearsay. You can stand by your statement - no one is claiming you to be a liar. But claiming fluoridation of water is just some nefarious big-corp scheme is, to put it mildy, extraordinary. Given the prevalence of anti-vaxxers and other crazies in the mainstream outlets I can only imagine the toleration level for unscientific gossip on public health matters is really low. Calm down dude, no need to get personal on people.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
- patrick8 10y ago
  Yeah, get bent dude. It sort of is your job to prove who you're quoting or get called out on it. The nearest I can tell is the guy you're talking about is George Haymaker, and if that is who it is, he was CEO of Kaiser, not Alcoa. But when you do things like this: "FFS; I am relaying a quote I heard from the head of fucking ALCOA! y'all motherfuckers know what ALCOA is? and how far their reach is...." That detail mattered because you made it matter. No one attacked you for that.
  - samstave 10y ago
    Hmm... You may be correct - and I apologize for my failing memory! I was freaking twelve when I heard him say this... George may be correct - I'll have to ask my dad now. While people have posted the listed CEOs of ALCOA in the 80s - I know that for certain he was head of ALCOA. My dad built his freaking house and I worked on it with John Haymaker (who my dad was required to employ during the build of his house on the Truckee River in Tahoe so his kid (the one who is now an architect) could get some build experience)... But I stand by my comment... those statements were made. Here it is: "Mr. Haymaker was Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Kaiser Aluminum Corporation from January 1994 through December 1999, and was Non-Executive Chairman of that company from October 2001 until July 2006. Prior to joining Kaiser, he served in executive positions for Alcoa Inc., and Alumax Inc."
- stanmancan 10y ago
  Not sure who you're thinking of. Maybe it was a weird childhood memory. But based on Alcoa's history page, nobody with that name was the CEO during the 80's. Alcoa CEO's during the 1980s [1] W.H. Krome George 1975 - 1983 Charlie Parry 1983 - 1987 Paul O’Neill 1987 - 1999 [1] https://www.alcoa.com/usa/en/alcoa_usa/history.asp https://www.alcoa.com/usa/en/alcoa_usa/history.asp
  - samstave 10y ago
    >"Mr. Haymaker was Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Kaiser Aluminum Corporation from January 1994 through December 1999, and was Non-Executive Chairman of that company from October 2001 until July 2006. Prior to joining Kaiser, he served in executive positions for Alcoa Inc., and Alumax Inc."
- wooster 10y ago
  There is a George T. Haymaker Jr. who "served as an Executive Vice President of Alumax Inc. from 1984 to 1986 and Vice President of International Operations at Alcoa Inc. from 1982 to 1984" [0]. His profile at Genstar Capital includes what seems like a recent photo [1]. Is that who you're thinking of? [0] http://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/people/person.asp?personId=319336&privcapId=34117 http://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/people/person.asp?p... [1] http://www.gencap.com/team/george_haymaker.php http://www.gencap.com/team/george_haymaker.php

samstave 10y ago

He was president of ALCOA in the mid-80s -- I cant find him online - but I posted a link to his son's profile page who is an architect. John Haymaker, JR. I also make mention of my dads other best friend: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_S._Herrington https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_S._Herrington who happens to have a wiki page.... So, I dont know what to say about the fact that John SR doesnt have a page about him online as he was head of ALCOA in ~1985... not my job to prove shit to the internet.... if you dont like my quote - then move on and dont attack me for it.

Retra 10y ago
You are being attacked?
- samstave 10y ago
  Aggressively debated then :-) I dont give a shit - but jesus, one quotes another from memory and shitstorm ensues... :) Whatever.
  - fsloth 10y ago
    No one is attacking you personally. A lot of people read HN for insightful or evidence backed commentary and the voting mechanism is there to maintain this quality. No one can quote your story and retain any credibility -to a third party relating your story sounds like this: "A dude in a web discussion forum claimed that a man who, based on his childhood memories, was a CEO at Alcor, said that...". It has degenerated to a gossip - something that is readily available elswhere. High quality diacussion, on the other hand, is hard to come by. It's okay to relate anecdotal experience - some these type of comments are really good - but the style in the comment should then reflect the fact that the claim cannot be validated in any concrete way.
    - samstave 10y ago
      Totally valid statement! I haven't been claiming otherwise. I proved who I was talking about, I stand by my statement and I believe that some HNers are dicks, period.
      - fsloth 10y ago
        "I proved who I was talking about," No, you did not 'prove' with any value of proof anyone else here would recognize. None of us can know did that conversation happen, if it did, were they serious or joking,etc etc. There is no way any sensible person could integrate this into their theory of the world. Basically, unless you can provide evidence that is well known/scientifically rigorous/would hold in the court of law, what you wrote, is hearsay. You can stand by your statement - no one is claiming you to be a liar. But claiming fluoridation of water is just some nefarious big-corp scheme is, to put it mildy, extraordinary. Given the prevalence of anti-vaxxers and other crazies in the mainstream outlets I can only imagine the toleration level for unscientific gossip on public health matters is really low. Calm down dude, no need to get personal on people.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
patrick8 10y ago
Yeah, get bent dude. It sort of is your job to prove who you're quoting or get called out on it. The nearest I can tell is the guy you're talking about is George Haymaker, and if that is who it is, he was CEO of Kaiser, not Alcoa. But when you do things like this: "FFS; I am relaying a quote I heard from the head of fucking ALCOA! y'all motherfuckers know what ALCOA is? and how far their reach is...." That detail mattered because you made it matter. No one attacked you for that.
- samstave 10y ago
  Hmm... You may be correct - and I apologize for my failing memory! I was freaking twelve when I heard him say this... George may be correct - I'll have to ask my dad now. While people have posted the listed CEOs of ALCOA in the 80s - I know that for certain he was head of ALCOA. My dad built his freaking house and I worked on it with John Haymaker (who my dad was required to employ during the build of his house on the Truckee River in Tahoe so his kid (the one who is now an architect) could get some build experience)... But I stand by my comment... those statements were made. Here it is: "Mr. Haymaker was Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Kaiser Aluminum Corporation from January 1994 through December 1999, and was Non-Executive Chairman of that company from October 2001 until July 2006. Prior to joining Kaiser, he served in executive positions for Alcoa Inc., and Alumax Inc."
stanmancan 10y ago
Not sure who you're thinking of. Maybe it was a weird childhood memory. But based on Alcoa's history page, nobody with that name was the CEO during the 80's. Alcoa CEO's during the 1980s [1] W.H. Krome George 1975 - 1983 Charlie Parry 1983 - 1987 Paul O’Neill 1987 - 1999 [1] https://www.alcoa.com/usa/en/alcoa_usa/history.asp https://www.alcoa.com/usa/en/alcoa_usa/history.asp
- samstave 10y ago
  >"Mr. Haymaker was Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Kaiser Aluminum Corporation from January 1994 through December 1999, and was Non-Executive Chairman of that company from October 2001 until July 2006. Prior to joining Kaiser, he served in executive positions for Alcoa Inc., and Alumax Inc."
wooster 10y ago
There is a George T. Haymaker Jr. who "served as an Executive Vice President of Alumax Inc. from 1984 to 1986 and Vice President of International Operations at Alcoa Inc. from 1982 to 1984" [0]. His profile at Genstar Capital includes what seems like a recent photo [1]. Is that who you're thinking of? [0] http://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/people/person.asp?personId=319336&privcapId=34117 http://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/people/person.asp?p... [1] http://www.gencap.com/team/george_haymaker.php http://www.gencap.com/team/george_haymaker.php