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Snowden insists he has not shared the 1.5 million documents with anyone, but the Russians officials publically concede that he "did share intelligence" with the

Snowden insists he has not shared the 1.5 million documents with anyone, but the Russians officials publically concede that he "did share intelligence" with their government. "Russian officials" here refers to a single MP, Franz Klintsevich. If you look at his widely-quoted words carefully, which offer no specifics, it sounds more like he's simply speculating that that's what Snowden did: "Let's be frank," he says. "Snowden did share intelligence. This is what security services do," adds Klintsevich. "If there's a possibility to get information, they will get it." EDIT: Apparently, Klintsevich actually said "to be frank, I think that he shared..." in the original interview ("я думаю что поделился что поделился"), but for whatever reason, NPR dropped the "я думаю" part in its translation.

slg 10y ago
Greenwald has stated that Snowden has leaked certain things for self-preservation. [1] Once that precedent is established, it isn't much of a leap to imagine that he would be willing to do that again if pressured by the Russian government. [1] - https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/352213748917874688 https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/352213748917874688
- mintplant 10y ago
  Then wouldn't it have been better for the intelligence community if he hadn't had to flee the US for self-preservation? If we had better whistle-blower protections Russia would never have entered the picture.
  - slg 10y ago
    Yes, which is exactly why the report harps on the fact that he did leave and got stuck flying between the US's two biggest political rivals. The NSA didn't put Snowden in that position, he put himself in it. Staying in the US would have certainly involved personal sacrifices from Snowden and he may not trust he would receive a fair trial. However that is why whistle blowers are celebrated. They but themselves at risk for the greater good. And you can't just say the ends justify the means for Snowden potentially giving up information to the Russians because that is the exact logic people inside the NSA use for this type of mass surveillance in the first place. Two core attributes of civil disobedience are about establishing a moral or ethical high ground and then facing the repercussions that come from your actions. Snowden appears to have failed on both of those accounts.
    - lawnchair_larry 10y ago
      The thought that someone is obligated to forfeit their freedom and even entertain the risk of spending a day in prison because of another party's abuse doesn't even begin to make sense, so that is a load of crap.
    - kafkaesq 10y ago
      The NSA didn't put Snowden in that position, he put himself in it. Actually it was the Obama administration that put him in that position, by revoking his passport. Two core attributes of civil disobedience are about establishing a moral or ethical high ground and then facing the repercussions that come from your actions. This is just empty posturing. For one thing, Snowden already is accepting significant repercussions for his actions (in ways that I don't think I need to detail for you; but which most likely are far greater than repercussions you've faced, or likely ever will face for taking a principled stand). For another, taking responsibility for your actions doesn't mean you are required to throw yourself under a bus and accept whatever unjust persecutions† the system is waiting to throw at you. And when that system becomes sufficiently corrupt and unaccountable, not only do you have a right, you have moral duty to escape and defy that system -- and continue your struggle -- to whatever extent possible. †BTW, by "unjust persecution" I don't mean a lengthy jail sentence; I mean the very high probability that he would be tortured, the way Chelsea Manning is being tortured right now, as we speak -- as her way of accepting the very same "repercussions" that you, from the safety of your keyboard, are asking Snowden to accept: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solitary_confinement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solitary_confinement
      - slg 10y ago
        First off, you can't blame Obama when Snowden was in China before any of his leaks became public. He could have been anywhere in the world at the time of the leaks, but he chose Hong Kong. Secondly, I like how you are the one accusing me of posturing and then say that Snowden has received harsher repercussions than anything I have experienced, talk about posturing. I didn't make the same decisions as Snowden. I know that most of us wouldn't make the same decisions in his situation. That is why the system exists how it does as countless people allow it to happen. Like I said, that is why we champion whistle blowers. They do something uncommon and difficult. But that choice also involves facing their accusers. Going to jail is often part of it for anyone practicing civil disobedience. It was part of the missions for everyone from MLK Jr to Gandhi. Yes, it is a lot to ask of Snowden to compare him to people like that, but once again no one put Snowden in that position but Snowden.
- lawnchair_larry 10y ago
  That is not what Greenwald is saying at all. He is talking about the public leaks, not a separate, self-preserving private leak.
- kafkaesq 10y ago
  Once that precedent is established, it isn't much of a leap to imagine ... Which is, again, speculation.
tanderson92 10y ago
"for whatever reason"
kafkaesq 10y ago
That was a garbled paste, above. The relevant context of Klintsevich's words (what one can get out of the recorded interview, anyway) was: Ну, давайте будем откровенны, я думаю что поделился...

slg 10y ago

Greenwald has stated that Snowden has leaked certain things for self-preservation. [1] Once that precedent is established, it isn't much of a leap to imagine that he would be willing to do that again if pressured by the Russian government. [1] - https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/352213748917874688 https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/352213748917874688

mintplant 10y ago
Then wouldn't it have been better for the intelligence community if he hadn't had to flee the US for self-preservation? If we had better whistle-blower protections Russia would never have entered the picture.
- slg 10y ago
  Yes, which is exactly why the report harps on the fact that he did leave and got stuck flying between the US's two biggest political rivals. The NSA didn't put Snowden in that position, he put himself in it. Staying in the US would have certainly involved personal sacrifices from Snowden and he may not trust he would receive a fair trial. However that is why whistle blowers are celebrated. They but themselves at risk for the greater good. And you can't just say the ends justify the means for Snowden potentially giving up information to the Russians because that is the exact logic people inside the NSA use for this type of mass surveillance in the first place. Two core attributes of civil disobedience are about establishing a moral or ethical high ground and then facing the repercussions that come from your actions. Snowden appears to have failed on both of those accounts.
  - lawnchair_larry 10y ago
    The thought that someone is obligated to forfeit their freedom and even entertain the risk of spending a day in prison because of another party's abuse doesn't even begin to make sense, so that is a load of crap.
  - kafkaesq 10y ago
    The NSA didn't put Snowden in that position, he put himself in it. Actually it was the Obama administration that put him in that position, by revoking his passport. Two core attributes of civil disobedience are about establishing a moral or ethical high ground and then facing the repercussions that come from your actions. This is just empty posturing. For one thing, Snowden already is accepting significant repercussions for his actions (in ways that I don't think I need to detail for you; but which most likely are far greater than repercussions you've faced, or likely ever will face for taking a principled stand). For another, taking responsibility for your actions doesn't mean you are required to throw yourself under a bus and accept whatever unjust persecutions† the system is waiting to throw at you. And when that system becomes sufficiently corrupt and unaccountable, not only do you have a right, you have moral duty to escape and defy that system -- and continue your struggle -- to whatever extent possible. †BTW, by "unjust persecution" I don't mean a lengthy jail sentence; I mean the very high probability that he would be tortured, the way Chelsea Manning is being tortured right now, as we speak -- as her way of accepting the very same "repercussions" that you, from the safety of your keyboard, are asking Snowden to accept: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solitary_confinement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solitary_confinement
    - slg 10y ago
      First off, you can't blame Obama when Snowden was in China before any of his leaks became public. He could have been anywhere in the world at the time of the leaks, but he chose Hong Kong. Secondly, I like how you are the one accusing me of posturing and then say that Snowden has received harsher repercussions than anything I have experienced, talk about posturing. I didn't make the same decisions as Snowden. I know that most of us wouldn't make the same decisions in his situation. That is why the system exists how it does as countless people allow it to happen. Like I said, that is why we champion whistle blowers. They do something uncommon and difficult. But that choice also involves facing their accusers. Going to jail is often part of it for anyone practicing civil disobedience. It was part of the missions for everyone from MLK Jr to Gandhi. Yes, it is a lot to ask of Snowden to compare him to people like that, but once again no one put Snowden in that position but Snowden.
lawnchair_larry 10y ago
That is not what Greenwald is saying at all. He is talking about the public leaks, not a separate, self-preserving private leak.
kafkaesq 10y ago
Once that precedent is established, it isn't much of a leap to imagine ... Which is, again, speculation.

tanderson92 10y ago

"for whatever reason"

kafkaesq 10y ago

That was a garbled paste, above. The relevant context of Klintsevich's words (what one can get out of the recorded interview, anyway) was: Ну, давайте будем откровенны, я думаю что поделился...