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Personally, I think we should go the other way and build this thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qattara_Depression_Project https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qat

by labster 10y ago

Personally, I think we should go the other way and build this thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qattara_Depression_Project https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qattara_Depression_Project I'd prefer the Nile variant, which would be hard to do for sure. But like the Salton Sea, flooding parts of the desert seems to have ecological benefits.

r00fus 10y ago
Did you read up on the Salton Sea? [1] Ecological Benefits: "Once known as the “California Riviera”, the Salton Sea is now called one of America’s worst ecological disasters: a fetid, stagnant, salty lake, that coughs up dead fish and birds by the thousands in frequent die-offs that occur." [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagues_%26_Pleasures_on_the_Salton_Sea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagues_%26_Pleasures_on_the_S...
- labster 10y ago
  Not sure how I'm supposed to read up with a movie... But yes I've driven by a few times and the smell was less than awesome. But you're talking about the technical debt of the Salton project. It was pretty great at first and we were adding a new species every week. But eventually, support for the project was diverted and it dried up. Now the whole thing reeks of code smell and everybody knows we need to fix the thing -- but it's in a remote area so it's hard to convince management that the project is worth the resources to save.
  - r00fus 10y ago
    Have you stopped to consider that this might be the natural outcome of such an endeavor? Perhaps support was diverted simply because the benefits simply weren't going to outweigh the costs... ever.
freehunter 10y ago
"Flooding the depression to -20 m would lower the height of the world ocean by 2.16 milimeters" Hmm, maybe that could be a way to offset flooding from climate change, by redistributing the water elsewhere into low-lying but dry land.
- creshal 10y ago
  I don't think there's enough "free" space we could flood. 2.16 mm does not even offset the sea level rise of any single year in the past 25 years, much less the rest.
  - flushandforget 10y ago
    I read that the mid-west (not sure if that's the correct location) in north America had heavily depleted water tables because of irrigation. When that evaporates off, where does that water go? Is it destined to stay over North America or does it end up in the sea? Or rather does this cause an imbalance? Is it more likely to rain over land?
nashashmi 10y ago
Diversion of the Nile only so the water could end up in evaporation? I see it as a reallocation of electricity to a different neighborhood, reduction of water to current cities, creation of new cities along the route of diversion, and unpredictable ecological impacts. But on the bright side, I predict the constant evaporation would reduce over time with the establishment of cities and possibly air polluting factories, whose constant smog would crystalize the evaporated water into immediate rain.
- labster 10y ago
  Water evaporating is a major component of the hydrologic cycle. That's generally what happens to water that ends up in the Mediterranean, so we'd essentially be taking the water that ended up in the ocean and putting it into an inland sea instead. Now that would probably have consequences for the Nile Delta, particularly in terms of saltwater intrusion... but the the Nile Delta is already somewhat screwed this way.[1] But I'm a meteorologist and not a hydrologist, so don't take my word on it. What I can say is that large bodies of water moderate temperature around them and create wildlife habitat, as North African lakes apparently did during the Pleistocene. The ecological impacts might be unpredictable, but they're definitely not unprecedented. Also when you say "reduction of water to current cities", you sound a lot like people here in the U.S. who think they will get less Colorado River water if it's stored in Lake Mead than if it was in Lake Powell. That's not how politics works; and storing the water in two dams only increases evaporation so everyone gets less water :( [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nile_Delta#Sea_level https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nile_Delta#Sea_level
lostlogin 10y ago
That article has this set of gems "The resulting lagoon, according to the CIA, would have four benefits:[8] It would be "spectacular and peaceful." It would "materially alter the climate in adjacent areas." It would "provide work during construction and living areas after completion for the Palestinian Arabs." It would get Egyptian president Gamel Abdel Nasser's "mind on other matters" because "he need[ed] some way to get off the Soviet Hook.""

by labster 10y ago

r00fus 10y ago

Did you read up on the Salton Sea? [1] Ecological Benefits: "Once known as the “California Riviera”, the Salton Sea is now called one of America’s worst ecological disasters: a fetid, stagnant, salty lake, that coughs up dead fish and birds by the thousands in frequent die-offs that occur." [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagues_%26_Pleasures_on_the_Salton_Sea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagues_%26_Pleasures_on_the_S...

labster 10y ago
Not sure how I'm supposed to read up with a movie... But yes I've driven by a few times and the smell was less than awesome. But you're talking about the technical debt of the Salton project. It was pretty great at first and we were adding a new species every week. But eventually, support for the project was diverted and it dried up. Now the whole thing reeks of code smell and everybody knows we need to fix the thing -- but it's in a remote area so it's hard to convince management that the project is worth the resources to save.
- r00fus 10y ago
  Have you stopped to consider that this might be the natural outcome of such an endeavor? Perhaps support was diverted simply because the benefits simply weren't going to outweigh the costs... ever.

freehunter 10y ago

"Flooding the depression to -20 m would lower the height of the world ocean by 2.16 milimeters" Hmm, maybe that could be a way to offset flooding from climate change, by redistributing the water elsewhere into low-lying but dry land.

creshal 10y ago
I don't think there's enough "free" space we could flood. 2.16 mm does not even offset the sea level rise of any single year in the past 25 years, much less the rest.
- flushandforget 10y ago
  I read that the mid-west (not sure if that's the correct location) in north America had heavily depleted water tables because of irrigation. When that evaporates off, where does that water go? Is it destined to stay over North America or does it end up in the sea? Or rather does this cause an imbalance? Is it more likely to rain over land?

nashashmi 10y ago

Diversion of the Nile only so the water could end up in evaporation? I see it as a reallocation of electricity to a different neighborhood, reduction of water to current cities, creation of new cities along the route of diversion, and unpredictable ecological impacts. But on the bright side, I predict the constant evaporation would reduce over time with the establishment of cities and possibly air polluting factories, whose constant smog would crystalize the evaporated water into immediate rain.

labster 10y ago
Water evaporating is a major component of the hydrologic cycle. That's generally what happens to water that ends up in the Mediterranean, so we'd essentially be taking the water that ended up in the ocean and putting it into an inland sea instead. Now that would probably have consequences for the Nile Delta, particularly in terms of saltwater intrusion... but the the Nile Delta is already somewhat screwed this way.[1] But I'm a meteorologist and not a hydrologist, so don't take my word on it. What I can say is that large bodies of water moderate temperature around them and create wildlife habitat, as North African lakes apparently did during the Pleistocene. The ecological impacts might be unpredictable, but they're definitely not unprecedented. Also when you say "reduction of water to current cities", you sound a lot like people here in the U.S. who think they will get less Colorado River water if it's stored in Lake Mead than if it was in Lake Powell. That's not how politics works; and storing the water in two dams only increases evaporation so everyone gets less water :( [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nile_Delta#Sea_level https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nile_Delta#Sea_level

lostlogin 10y ago

That article has this set of gems "The resulting lagoon, according to the CIA, would have four benefits:[8] It would be "spectacular and peaceful." It would "materially alter the climate in adjacent areas." It would "provide work during construction and living areas after completion for the Palestinian Arabs." It would get Egyptian president Gamel Abdel Nasser's "mind on other matters" because "he need[ed] some way to get off the Soviet Hook.""