5 ms·

Would Adobe have a valid antitrust case with this?

aphyr 17y ago
Doubtful. Adobe, Appcelerator, et al are not in competition with Apple, only making products which run on theirs. The ToS have always been disclosed as variable. It's a good reason not to predicate your business model on the whims of another company which has no stake in your success. :/
- pyre 17y ago
  You could say the same thing about developing software for any platform that isn't open. None of these companies could have foreseen that Apple would drop the hammer on the creation of tools to help developers create more iPhone applications. They still have to pay Apple to develop for the iPhone. It's not like this was some end-run around the system.
  - aphyr 17y ago
    Some companies are interested in having their ecosystem succeed and keep their agreements largely stable. Developing software for Microsoft is typically a solid proposition, for example; they're unlikely to change the agreement as to what toolkit you can use after the fact. Apple, on the other hand, has shown a somewhat... avaricious... approach to the app store, rejecting applications for curvy buttons, speech bubbles, or being able to load arbitrary images from the internet. We should all realize that Apple will allow precisely what it wants to with respect to the app store, and nothing more. They don't need to do anything else; consumers will buy their products regardless of how the apps can be created. I don't like it, but I definitely saw it coming. :/
- swilliams 17y ago
  It especially sucks if Apple does follow through with this and the people that paid for MonoTouch end up with a digital pet rock. http://monotouch.net/Store http://monotouch.net/Store $999 for the Enterprise version? Ouch.
jsz0 17y ago
Nope. Apple doesn't have a monopoly in the phone market.
- glhaynes 17y ago
  How is "market" defined, legally? They certainly have a monopoly over the "iPhone" or "iPhone App Store apps" markets. Of course, that reasoning could get absurd pretty quickly, so I'm sure it must be defined at a pretty generic, high level.
  - _delirium 17y ago
    It's a gray area. One of the issues in the Microsoft antitrust suits was: what is the "market" in which Windows operates? Obviously, operating-system software of some sort, but which platforms count in the total? Microsoft was arguing that they make basically "an OS for computers", and so their market share should be computed after including Unix workstations, Mac desktops, maybe even Unix servers and IBM mainframes in the totals. Netscape were arguing that the relevant market was the OS market for IBM-compatible home-and-office PCs, in which Microsoft had a much higher dominance.
  - rortian 17y ago
    It's a good question and it turns out to be the most important issues for any anti-trust action. If you are really interested, I would encourage you to look up some famous cases and read the decisions in some of the cases.
- gte910h 17y ago
  Yeah, but the timing of the news could possibly end them in court. Had they done this months ago, they'd likely have not had a problem. But 4 days before CS5's release? I could see that adobe has already filed suit.
  - escoz 17y ago
    could apple then sue them back because they're talking about something that is still under nda?
tjmc 17y ago
Antitrust is about abusing monopoly power so I'd guess not, but I'd love to hear an opinion from a US lawyer about the 'restraint of trade' angle. For example, I don't think automakers are allowed to ban competitors from making compatible parts for their cars. Similarly I think there have been cases where printer makers tried and failed to prevent competitors from making compatible ink cartridges for their printers. No automakers or printer manufacturers have a monopoly though. Requiring the use of certain tools to produce an otherwise identical product seems to me a violation along similar lines. I'd love to hear an expert opinion on it.

aphyr 17y ago

Doubtful. Adobe, Appcelerator, et al are not in competition with Apple, only making products which run on theirs. The ToS have always been disclosed as variable. It's a good reason not to predicate your business model on the whims of another company which has no stake in your success. :/

pyre 17y ago
You could say the same thing about developing software for any platform that isn't open. None of these companies could have foreseen that Apple would drop the hammer on the creation of tools to help developers create more iPhone applications. They still have to pay Apple to develop for the iPhone. It's not like this was some end-run around the system.
- aphyr 17y ago
  Some companies are interested in having their ecosystem succeed and keep their agreements largely stable. Developing software for Microsoft is typically a solid proposition, for example; they're unlikely to change the agreement as to what toolkit you can use after the fact. Apple, on the other hand, has shown a somewhat... avaricious... approach to the app store, rejecting applications for curvy buttons, speech bubbles, or being able to load arbitrary images from the internet. We should all realize that Apple will allow precisely what it wants to with respect to the app store, and nothing more. They don't need to do anything else; consumers will buy their products regardless of how the apps can be created. I don't like it, but I definitely saw it coming. :/
swilliams 17y ago
It especially sucks if Apple does follow through with this and the people that paid for MonoTouch end up with a digital pet rock. http://monotouch.net/Store http://monotouch.net/Store $999 for the Enterprise version? Ouch.

jsz0 17y ago

Nope. Apple doesn't have a monopoly in the phone market.

glhaynes 17y ago
How is "market" defined, legally? They certainly have a monopoly over the "iPhone" or "iPhone App Store apps" markets. Of course, that reasoning could get absurd pretty quickly, so I'm sure it must be defined at a pretty generic, high level.
- _delirium 17y ago
  It's a gray area. One of the issues in the Microsoft antitrust suits was: what is the "market" in which Windows operates? Obviously, operating-system software of some sort, but which platforms count in the total? Microsoft was arguing that they make basically "an OS for computers", and so their market share should be computed after including Unix workstations, Mac desktops, maybe even Unix servers and IBM mainframes in the totals. Netscape were arguing that the relevant market was the OS market for IBM-compatible home-and-office PCs, in which Microsoft had a much higher dominance.
- rortian 17y ago
  It's a good question and it turns out to be the most important issues for any anti-trust action. If you are really interested, I would encourage you to look up some famous cases and read the decisions in some of the cases.
gte910h 17y ago
Yeah, but the timing of the news could possibly end them in court. Had they done this months ago, they'd likely have not had a problem. But 4 days before CS5's release? I could see that adobe has already filed suit.
- escoz 17y ago
  could apple then sue them back because they're talking about something that is still under nda?

tjmc 17y ago

Antitrust is about abusing monopoly power so I'd guess not, but I'd love to hear an opinion from a US lawyer about the 'restraint of trade' angle. For example, I don't think automakers are allowed to ban competitors from making compatible parts for their cars. Similarly I think there have been cases where printer makers tried and failed to prevent competitors from making compatible ink cartridges for their printers. No automakers or printer manufacturers have a monopoly though. Requiring the use of certain tools to produce an otherwise identical product seems to me a violation along similar lines. I'd love to hear an expert opinion on it.