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On this different topic: I got a lot more relaxed about language after reading numerous books by linguists (because that is their attitude, they just watch wha

On this different topic: I got a lot more relaxed about language after reading numerous books by linguists (because that is their attitude, they just watch what is going on). In this context, I think the train has left the station (as we Germans say, "der Zug ist abgefahren") and "racist" now indeed has a new much wider meaning in public discourse contexts. It now seems to include "being different", in not necessarily clearly defined ways, the exact nature of the differences are to be taken from context. I could just yesterday or today read about "racism" in a Guardian article about an attack on a Polish immigrant somewhere in Britain, who certainly wasn't of a different race [0]. However, I'm very relaxed about it - everybody knows what is meant. Also, a shift in meaning in some context does not mean the stricter meaning of the word is lost! The exact same people who may use a word loosely in one context use it with its strict meaning in a different one. If you start talking about biology this will happen. Words and language are extreme flexible, and such a change is not the end of the world. I think their is some justification: When the word is used in such wider meaning it's more about the effect, not the cause. My motto for language is the same as in programming: Be as lenient as possible with input - but be strict about output. In the language context that means I won't criticize when I actually clearly understand the meaning, but I myself try to use the right expressions, grammar, punctuation, etc. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/sep/12/polish-man-attacked-beaten-gang-20-teenagers-leeds-racially-aggravated-assault https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/sep/12/polish-man-a... (sub-headline: "...they are treating incident ... as racially aggravated")

kafkaesq 10y ago
"...they are treating incident ... as racially aggravated" The term is used because the person being attacked was thought of as being of a different "race" by their racist attackers (and because that's the reason he was attacked; bot for being non-heterosexual, or for being a fan of the wrong football team). Not because one is in agreeance with the alleged "racial" distinctions (in the mind of the racist). BTW: der Zug ist abgefahren In English one would say "the horse has left the barn."
- Noseshine 10y ago
  > Not because one is in agreeance with the alleged "racial" distinctions That's what I said, the word is being used with a different/wider meaning and not with that narrower original meaning. > (in the mind of the racist) I doubt the attackers thought of the Polish person as of a different "race" as in the biological meaning of that word. Same thing, shift of meaning of the word.
  - kafkaesq 10y ago
    I doubt the attackers thought of the Polish person as of a different "race" as in the biological meaning of that word. That's the thing -- "race" doesn't really have a biological meaning. If anything it's just a vague suspicion that certain people are inferior or "alien" because of their DNA, the breeding, or simply their cultural upbringing. Of course it's all invented tripe, and biologically speaking it's equally untenable (from a biological point of view) to think of Poles, Anglo-Saxons and Italians as being of different "races" than it to think of Africans or East Asians in those terms. But racists aren't the smartest bunch, you know, so in fact that's pretty much exactly what they think.
    - Noseshine 10y ago
      > "race" doesn't really have a biological meaning Please work with me. Communication requires willing partners, I don't know where you want to take this sub-thread? I know "race" does not exist - and yet we did (and do) have the word. We were talking about language and meanings, not truth. Enough people did (and do) associate a biological meaning - what an actual geneticist has to say about that is besides the point. And now the meaning of that word has shifted. That is all I said.
- jnbiche 10y ago
  > In English one would say "the horse has left the barn." At least in my native English speaking world, we also say "that train has left the station". It's even listed as a cliche on a MetaFilter page on cliches and hackneyed sayings[0]. We also say "that ship has sailed". 0. http://ask.metafilter.com/177148/Thats-so-cliche http://ask.metafilter.com/177148/Thats-so-cliche

kafkaesq 10y ago

"...they are treating incident ... as racially aggravated" The term is used because the person being attacked was thought of as being of a different "race" by their racist attackers (and because that's the reason he was attacked; bot for being non-heterosexual, or for being a fan of the wrong football team). Not because one is in agreeance with the alleged "racial" distinctions (in the mind of the racist). BTW: der Zug ist abgefahren In English one would say "the horse has left the barn."

Noseshine 10y ago
> Not because one is in agreeance with the alleged "racial" distinctions That's what I said, the word is being used with a different/wider meaning and not with that narrower original meaning. > (in the mind of the racist) I doubt the attackers thought of the Polish person as of a different "race" as in the biological meaning of that word. Same thing, shift of meaning of the word.
- kafkaesq 10y ago
  I doubt the attackers thought of the Polish person as of a different "race" as in the biological meaning of that word. That's the thing -- "race" doesn't really have a biological meaning. If anything it's just a vague suspicion that certain people are inferior or "alien" because of their DNA, the breeding, or simply their cultural upbringing. Of course it's all invented tripe, and biologically speaking it's equally untenable (from a biological point of view) to think of Poles, Anglo-Saxons and Italians as being of different "races" than it to think of Africans or East Asians in those terms. But racists aren't the smartest bunch, you know, so in fact that's pretty much exactly what they think.
  - Noseshine 10y ago
    > "race" doesn't really have a biological meaning Please work with me. Communication requires willing partners, I don't know where you want to take this sub-thread? I know "race" does not exist - and yet we did (and do) have the word. We were talking about language and meanings, not truth. Enough people did (and do) associate a biological meaning - what an actual geneticist has to say about that is besides the point. And now the meaning of that word has shifted. That is all I said.
jnbiche 10y ago
> In English one would say "the horse has left the barn." At least in my native English speaking world, we also say "that train has left the station". It's even listed as a cliche on a MetaFilter page on cliches and hackneyed sayings[0]. We also say "that ship has sailed". 0. http://ask.metafilter.com/177148/Thats-so-cliche http://ask.metafilter.com/177148/Thats-so-cliche