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This is just silly. Besides, grammatically, "he" is a gender neutral pronoun when referring to a person of unspecified gender (as in other languages). "They" is

This is just silly. Besides, grammatically, "he" is a gender neutral pronoun when referring to a person of unspecified gender (as in other languages). "They" is plural. "Ve" is not a word. "S/he" is awkward and unnecessary (and hey, we can argue that it is misandrous because you're capitalizing the "S" and prioritizing "She" over "he"; if you argue that it doesn't matter, then the same can be said about "he").

aninhumer 10y ago
> "They" is plural. Singular "they" is a widely recognised usage. And the idea that "he" is gender neutral always seemed to me like a post-rationalisation for people's androcentrism than any kind of well founded rule.
dragonwriter 10y ago
> Besides, grammatically, "he" is a gender neutral pronoun when referring to a person of unspecified gender (as in other languages). No, grammatically, "he" always has masculine gender [0]; its historically-accepted (though increasingly-less-so) semantics include use in reference to a person of unspecified (socially-ascribed) gender (classically, use of personal programs in English maps best to socially-ascribed gender, which has not taken gender identity much into account -- recently, there's been a move to align socially-ascribed gender with gender identity, but pronoun use basically follows the former which just happens to have a growing norm of also aligning with the latter.) > "They" is plural "They" is grammatically plural and gender-neutral, but has a very long history of accepted use with semantics of referring to an individual of unspecified (socially-ascribed) gender. This acceptance was somewhat reduced by the Victorian fad of Latin-inspired prescriptivism in English, but this reductions is among those of that fads effects that have been fading over recent decades. [0] Note that grammatic gender is a distinct concept from either socially ascribed gender of a person, gender identity of a person, or biological sex of a person.
the_other 10y ago
> This is just silly Given an HN reader took the trouble to email me their thanks for my comment, I respectfully disagree. To do this, they had find my email address by following some of my other comments, linking to a website, following through to github... The email they wrote was articulate. They put in real effort to say "thanks". > "he" is a gender neutral pronoun when referring to a person of unspecified gender (as in other languages). In some dictionaries, yes. A possible counter-argument to this is that the tradition of that usage comes from cultures with significant inbuilt misogyny. > "They" is plural. Sometimes. - https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/they https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/they - http://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/singular-nonbinary-they http://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/singular-nonbin... > "Ve" is not a word. I can read it, write it, say it and find other like usages in numerous places. To me, that reflects most of the necessary facets of "a word". - https://genderneutralpronoun.wordpress.com https://genderneutralpronoun.wordpress.com - http://vevemvir.tumblr.com http://vevemvir.tumblr.com - http://www.aleph.se/Trans/Cultural/Art/eganrev.html http://www.aleph.se/Trans/Cultural/Art/eganrev.html - http://www.dictionary.com/browse/etymology http://www.dictionary.com/browse/etymology - http://www.wikihow.com/Create-a-Made-Up-Word http://www.wikihow.com/Create-a-Made-Up-Word > "S/he" is awkward and unnecessary Agreed. I dislike this form. A similar option is to alternate use of "he" and "she". This form is common, and probably the simplest. I wish I'd suggested it. > we can argue that it is misandrous because you're capitalizing the "S" and prioritizing "She" over "he" That was you, not me.

aninhumer 10y ago

> "They" is plural. Singular "they" is a widely recognised usage. And the idea that "he" is gender neutral always seemed to me like a post-rationalisation for people's androcentrism than any kind of well founded rule.

dragonwriter 10y ago

> Besides, grammatically, "he" is a gender neutral pronoun when referring to a person of unspecified gender (as in other languages). No, grammatically, "he" always has masculine gender [0]; its historically-accepted (though increasingly-less-so) semantics include use in reference to a person of unspecified (socially-ascribed) gender (classically, use of personal programs in English maps best to socially-ascribed gender, which has not taken gender identity much into account -- recently, there's been a move to align socially-ascribed gender with gender identity, but pronoun use basically follows the former which just happens to have a growing norm of also aligning with the latter.) > "They" is plural "They" is grammatically plural and gender-neutral, but has a very long history of accepted use with semantics of referring to an individual of unspecified (socially-ascribed) gender. This acceptance was somewhat reduced by the Victorian fad of Latin-inspired prescriptivism in English, but this reductions is among those of that fads effects that have been fading over recent decades. [0] Note that grammatic gender is a distinct concept from either socially ascribed gender of a person, gender identity of a person, or biological sex of a person.

the_other 10y ago

> This is just silly Given an HN reader took the trouble to email me their thanks for my comment, I respectfully disagree. To do this, they had find my email address by following some of my other comments, linking to a website, following through to github... The email they wrote was articulate. They put in real effort to say "thanks". > "he" is a gender neutral pronoun when referring to a person of unspecified gender (as in other languages). In some dictionaries, yes. A possible counter-argument to this is that the tradition of that usage comes from cultures with significant inbuilt misogyny. > "They" is plural. Sometimes. - https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/they https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/they - http://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/singular-nonbinary-they http://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/singular-nonbin... > "Ve" is not a word. I can read it, write it, say it and find other like usages in numerous places. To me, that reflects most of the necessary facets of "a word". - https://genderneutralpronoun.wordpress.com https://genderneutralpronoun.wordpress.com - http://vevemvir.tumblr.com http://vevemvir.tumblr.com - http://www.aleph.se/Trans/Cultural/Art/eganrev.html http://www.aleph.se/Trans/Cultural/Art/eganrev.html - http://www.dictionary.com/browse/etymology http://www.dictionary.com/browse/etymology - http://www.wikihow.com/Create-a-Made-Up-Word http://www.wikihow.com/Create-a-Made-Up-Word > "S/he" is awkward and unnecessary Agreed. I dislike this form. A similar option is to alternate use of "he" and "she". This form is common, and probably the simplest. I wish I'd suggested it. > we can argue that it is misandrous because you're capitalizing the "S" and prioritizing "She" over "he" That was you, not me.