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I like this. It's short, and covers how influential philosophy has been. And I have no problem with snark from someone who's interest has become the butt of che

by uxp100 10y ago

I like this. It's short, and covers how influential philosophy has been. And I have no problem with snark from someone who's interest has become the butt of cheap jokes. However, when it comes to the greater conversation, I'm less generous. I think an aspect of the supposed STEM vs Humanities divide is class, which seems like a bit of a stretch now that I write it down. I chose the most fascinating, lucrative, TRADE I could. And damn, it pays well. And now people who had the freedom to go to an expensive University and 'explore themselves' can condescend to me while also feeling persecuted by me. And my coworkers condescend back, but I remain interested in the humanities, but it just was not a choice to go to college for the fun of it. I was the first in my family to go to college, and from the start it was understood that this was my ticket to the upper middle class, where your parents aren't in tears figuring out how to pay their bills. (Although we did OK, Dad found another job, etc. Never actually went broke. My mom just might be the type to cry when frustrated.) When people had the freedom to go to college to explore themselves and the humanities, and you weren't expected to justify your degree, mostly rich people went to college. As a small minded reformist Bourgeoisie, I'm OK with this. Now is better than then. Lets make college even better in the future for everyone, not just my kids, who will be free to explore themselves with post-colonial vaporwave music production. PS My father was in a real trade, I don't actually think of Software Engineering as a trade, but I do think there is a class thing here.

uxp100 10y ago
I'm out of my edit window, but I am aware Bourgeoisie is the class, I should have said I am a small minded Bourgeois. Post-colonial vaporwave music production is an associates degree. My children can get degrees in post-colonial power electronics music composition. Also, to apologize for that snark, post colonial theory is interesting, music composition is very interesting.
aporetics 10y ago
The Athens of Plato's time was a society built on slave labor. They were a strictly patriarchal society (women weren't allowed to leave the house much), and to be a citizen meant you didn't need to work for a living. In short: a degree and a kind of classism we have difficulty imagining. None of this mitigates the lessons that Plato, Aristotle, Heraclitus, Pythagoras, etc., have left behind for us, and which await us at the local library (or liberal arts college). You're right that access to higher education is not where it should be. This is well understood, protested, discussed, etc. But the decision to pursue more or less lucrative paths is a free decision. You may well be coerced by issues attending economic inequality. You may face great sacrifice in order to devote yourself to something like philosophy[1]. And certainly the decision is inextricable from (let's not forget) your family life (oh, you want kids? you want to live in a real house, not a tenement house? you want healthcare and a minimal retirement fund?). But these are decisions about what kind of life you want to lead, and the examples above are about the comforts you may want in life. It is not a coincidence that philosophy's purview lies in asking the questions that help you understand why you value what you do, and base your decisions accordingly. And it may even turn out that, in the course of better understanding why you have found something meaningful in the past, that you no longer find it quite so meaningful. You may, in fact, have turn of heart, and start a new chapter in your life. It would be great if we had social values that translated into an economy which enabled academic pursuits instead of hampered them. (If you think this is idealism run amok, take a look at Finland[2], with the best primary education system in the world, where getting a degree in education is as competitive and prestigious as becoming a doctor; not coincidentally, those careers garner similar salaries). But we're not there yet. Maybe what's needed are more philosophy majors. [1] http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/gifted-teachers-life-of-the-mind-was-also-life-of-near-destitution/ http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/gifted-teachers-lif... [2] https://www.google.com/#q=finland+education+system https://www.google.com/#q=finland+education+system

by uxp100 10y ago

uxp100 10y ago

I'm out of my edit window, but I am aware Bourgeoisie is the class, I should have said I am a small minded Bourgeois. Post-colonial vaporwave music production is an associates degree. My children can get degrees in post-colonial power electronics music composition. Also, to apologize for that snark, post colonial theory is interesting, music composition is very interesting.

aporetics 10y ago

The Athens of Plato's time was a society built on slave labor. They were a strictly patriarchal society (women weren't allowed to leave the house much), and to be a citizen meant you didn't need to work for a living. In short: a degree and a kind of classism we have difficulty imagining. None of this mitigates the lessons that Plato, Aristotle, Heraclitus, Pythagoras, etc., have left behind for us, and which await us at the local library (or liberal arts college). You're right that access to higher education is not where it should be. This is well understood, protested, discussed, etc. But the decision to pursue more or less lucrative paths is a free decision. You may well be coerced by issues attending economic inequality. You may face great sacrifice in order to devote yourself to something like philosophy[1]. And certainly the decision is inextricable from (let's not forget) your family life (oh, you want kids? you want to live in a real house, not a tenement house? you want healthcare and a minimal retirement fund?). But these are decisions about what kind of life you want to lead, and the examples above are about the comforts you may want in life. It is not a coincidence that philosophy's purview lies in asking the questions that help you understand why you value what you do, and base your decisions accordingly. And it may even turn out that, in the course of better understanding why you have found something meaningful in the past, that you no longer find it quite so meaningful. You may, in fact, have turn of heart, and start a new chapter in your life. It would be great if we had social values that translated into an economy which enabled academic pursuits instead of hampered them. (If you think this is idealism run amok, take a look at Finland[2], with the best primary education system in the world, where getting a degree in education is as competitive and prestigious as becoming a doctor; not coincidentally, those careers garner similar salaries). But we're not there yet. Maybe what's needed are more philosophy majors. [1] http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/gifted-teachers-life-of-the-mind-was-also-life-of-near-destitution/ http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/gifted-teachers-lif... [2] https://www.google.com/#q=finland+education+system https://www.google.com/#q=finland+education+system