7 ms·

You don't want to be coding by age 50 anyway. Sooner or later it has to end. If you are a young programmer and your salary merely covers your costs of living (

by vemv 10y ago

You don't want to be coding by age 50 anyway. Sooner or later it has to end. If you are a young programmer and your salary merely covers your costs of living (including leisure etc), it seems to me that you need a plan.

tjic 10y ago
I've been a coder. I've been a manager. I've owned a firm that had 15 employees. Of all of these, I prefer to be a coder. I'm just 5 years away from 50, and let me tell you: not only do I want to be a developer at 50, I want to be a developer at 70. Being a developer means getting paid good money to work on problems that are perfectly suited to my INTJ / spergy personality. There's nothing else I'd rather do with my (work) time.
- kyled 10y ago
  What did your firm do?
  - tjic 10y ago
    I owned two businesses: * SmartFlix.com (dvd rental business) * Heavyink.com (comic book ecommerce)
- steveax 10y ago
  I'm 5 years on the other side of 50 and similar story. Did 8 years in the game industry, 3D and technical art, then as a co-founder of a small (22 employees at height) game studio, coding since then. Still love it - and yes I have a plan :-)
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
santaclaus 10y ago
> You don't want to be coding by age 50 anyway. Sooner or later it has to end. Why not? One of my favorite coworkers ever was over 50 and he still seemed to very much enjoy coding.
- vemv 10y ago
  I'm pleased to read all the replies to my post - of course there are no universal truths! From my side I love programming per se (logical/creative thinking, etc), but programming as a profession is stressful: deadlines, unsatisfied clients, changing technologies... At age 50 I'd rather give my body and mind a rest, and focus in my family or whatnot. One thing is sure for me: I didn't come to this universe to spend it in front of a screen.
  - pjc50 10y ago
    A lot of people would like to retire early whatever their job. It's increasingly hard to plan to do that these days, any more than you can plan to become independently wealthy.
    - vemv 10y ago
      You cannot plan to become wealthy, but you can attempt it. If you don't try it you've already lost, else you do have a chance. The point of my original post is: 2016 is a really good time to be a developer, but still, if you don't do something extra you may have it really tough by age 40 (don't blame the "ageists"!). You can be up to a number of things: - launch your own startup - become a freelancer, hack your way into great rates - find a job with an outstanding salary - move into management
  - ArkyBeagle 10y ago
    If it hurts, you're doing it wrong :) I haven't had a stressful deadline in a very long time. Indeed, I've been weeks or months ahead in almost all cases. I've used that time to get a jump on integration, or help others get a jump on their schedule. By the time I'm ready to ship, the only thing between me and proper operation is disinformation from others. Now, granted, that's annoying to some people. But just consider that some of that is just ... show business. The people that that annoys are probably not the people you want to work for anyway. And if you do it "my way", you'll know that, and they'll probably know that. The "changing technology" part is the least source of stress - after a while, you begin to recognize the patterns that tools are designed to solve. So you're down to the fresh ... heck that is Other People's Code. ( the Other People's Code thing is purely about lost or asymmetric information - but it's a really important skill, if for no other reason than to know what not to do). You just have to learn to separate the act of getting real work done from the act of performing in the corporate Kabuki theater that surrounds getting real work done. At least then you can let it run its course - because very close to all organizations eventually develop autoimmune disease and die of it. It's not that I am not sympathetic - I am. It's just that after a couple of decades of doing this, you can understand the patterns and apply your efforts to the parts you know you can fix. But don't let your mind rest. If you rest, you'll rust. A fellah I worked with since 2011 died in 2015 of stage 4 colon cancer, but other than that, he'd still be going well towards 70. I want to be like that guy, without the colon cancer. And I always have.
clifanatic 10y ago
> You don't want to be coding by age 50 anyway. Yeah, I kind of do. > Sooner or later it has to end. Why? It doesn't for doctors, engineers, lawyers, accountants... programming is the only job I've ever heard of where decades of experience is somehow a sign on incompetence.
emidln 10y ago
Why not? I like writing code, understanding code, and solving problems by using my skills to code. I have a plan that includes retirement savings. At my current rate, I could comfortably retire by the time that I'm 40, but I like working with complex systems, in particular complex computer systems. I tend to write code to understand and modify those systems. Why can't my plan include continuing to convince people to pay me to do what I like and have acquired skill in?
henrik_w 10y ago
I just turned 50, I still code, and I still love it. In fact, I can't think of I job I'd rather do. So, no, it doesn't have to end.
whyenot 10y ago
I think you meant to say "I don't want to be coding by age 50."
zwieback 10y ago
Turned 50 this year, coding every day although my job includes loads of other stuff as well. One of the advantages of having 35 years of coding and engineering experience is that it's easier to judge the value of "innovations" in the field.
- collyw 10y ago
  Its also quite depressing when everyone is jumping to the latest fads when they are often an inferior solution.
terrywilcox 10y ago
I'm happily coding at 51.
- jwadhwani 10y ago
  Me at 59:-)
  - ahoeltje 10y ago
    I am 64 and still love to write software, but currently unemployed. Unfortunately the software industry here in the San Francisco area seems to think that a 20'something who has memorized a few buzzword algorithms from their recent college experience, has no social life and willing to be in a cubical for 12 hours a day, is a more valuable employee. Their lower pay grade may have something to do with it. I had a real job interview last month. The 25 year old "team lead" asked me (in broken English, his second language) to write a bubble sort - in real code - on the white board. Seriously.
AnimalMuppet 10y ago
I'm 54. I'm a coder. The last two jobs I got hired for, in the interview I said that my explicit career goal was to never become a manager. In a follow-up post, you said that you don't want to spend all your time in front of a screen. Well, I work for places where management is mostly sane, and panics are few. I work 40 hours a week with very rare exceptions. Outside of that, I have a life that doesn't involve staring at screens. It has actual humans in it (plus a dog and a cat). It sounds like you want to be retired by fifty. Well, I didn't plan well enough for that. Part of that is health issues of some people around me - they need my income, they have some doctor bills, they can't eat garbage so their food is somewhat more expensive. I'd prefer it to be otherwise, but I'm not going to walk away from them. So I need money, and programming pays pretty well.
Applejinx 10y ago
My God. Really? It's very strange reading this. I'm 48 and it blows my mind to hear that 38-year-olds are unemployable as coders. I ran airwindows.com for nearly a decade as a traditional product-selling business and brought in about a quarter of a million dollars all told, and then when my payment processor went out of business, I took it to patreon.com/airwindows and started putting my products out for free to get them in the hands of people who can no longer afford $50 a plugin. I'm going to be open-sourcing stuff, too, and continue to develop new concepts. 'coder' as a salaried drudge sounds like you just do what you're told. A person like that cannot run an independent business for ten years, and perhaps shouldn't be 'coding'. For some of us, for me, it's like saying 'you don't want to be guitar playing (or singing, drumming, etc) by age 50'. It just highlights a really profound disparity in viewpoint there. I can imagine young slave labor stacking the market against me (this is part of why I went to a patronage model, new as it is to me) but don't tell me not to code. That's crazy talk :)
foobarge 10y ago
I'm nearing 50 and I'm still coding. I'm looking forward to retirement where I'll be able to code more (contributing to open source stuff for instance) and do all the things I don't have the time to do now (more hardware, etc...)

by vemv 10y ago

tjic 10y ago

I've been a coder. I've been a manager. I've owned a firm that had 15 employees. Of all of these, I prefer to be a coder. I'm just 5 years away from 50, and let me tell you: not only do I want to be a developer at 50, I want to be a developer at 70. Being a developer means getting paid good money to work on problems that are perfectly suited to my INTJ / spergy personality. There's nothing else I'd rather do with my (work) time.

kyled 10y ago
What did your firm do?
- tjic 10y ago
  I owned two businesses: * SmartFlix.com (dvd rental business) * Heavyink.com (comic book ecommerce)
steveax 10y ago
I'm 5 years on the other side of 50 and similar story. Did 8 years in the game industry, 3D and technical art, then as a co-founder of a small (22 employees at height) game studio, coding since then. Still love it - and yes I have a plan :-)

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

santaclaus 10y ago

> You don't want to be coding by age 50 anyway. Sooner or later it has to end. Why not? One of my favorite coworkers ever was over 50 and he still seemed to very much enjoy coding.

vemv 10y ago
I'm pleased to read all the replies to my post - of course there are no universal truths! From my side I love programming per se (logical/creative thinking, etc), but programming as a profession is stressful: deadlines, unsatisfied clients, changing technologies... At age 50 I'd rather give my body and mind a rest, and focus in my family or whatnot. One thing is sure for me: I didn't come to this universe to spend it in front of a screen.
- pjc50 10y ago
  A lot of people would like to retire early whatever their job. It's increasingly hard to plan to do that these days, any more than you can plan to become independently wealthy.
  - vemv 10y ago
    You cannot plan to become wealthy, but you can attempt it. If you don't try it you've already lost, else you do have a chance. The point of my original post is: 2016 is a really good time to be a developer, but still, if you don't do something extra you may have it really tough by age 40 (don't blame the "ageists"!). You can be up to a number of things: - launch your own startup - become a freelancer, hack your way into great rates - find a job with an outstanding salary - move into management
- ArkyBeagle 10y ago
  If it hurts, you're doing it wrong :) I haven't had a stressful deadline in a very long time. Indeed, I've been weeks or months ahead in almost all cases. I've used that time to get a jump on integration, or help others get a jump on their schedule. By the time I'm ready to ship, the only thing between me and proper operation is disinformation from others. Now, granted, that's annoying to some people. But just consider that some of that is just ... show business. The people that that annoys are probably not the people you want to work for anyway. And if you do it "my way", you'll know that, and they'll probably know that. The "changing technology" part is the least source of stress - after a while, you begin to recognize the patterns that tools are designed to solve. So you're down to the fresh ... heck that is Other People's Code. ( the Other People's Code thing is purely about lost or asymmetric information - but it's a really important skill, if for no other reason than to know what not to do). You just have to learn to separate the act of getting real work done from the act of performing in the corporate Kabuki theater that surrounds getting real work done. At least then you can let it run its course - because very close to all organizations eventually develop autoimmune disease and die of it. It's not that I am not sympathetic - I am. It's just that after a couple of decades of doing this, you can understand the patterns and apply your efforts to the parts you know you can fix. But don't let your mind rest. If you rest, you'll rust. A fellah I worked with since 2011 died in 2015 of stage 4 colon cancer, but other than that, he'd still be going well towards 70. I want to be like that guy, without the colon cancer. And I always have.

clifanatic 10y ago

> You don't want to be coding by age 50 anyway. Yeah, I kind of do. > Sooner or later it has to end. Why? It doesn't for doctors, engineers, lawyers, accountants... programming is the only job I've ever heard of where decades of experience is somehow a sign on incompetence.

emidln 10y ago

Why not? I like writing code, understanding code, and solving problems by using my skills to code. I have a plan that includes retirement savings. At my current rate, I could comfortably retire by the time that I'm 40, but I like working with complex systems, in particular complex computer systems. I tend to write code to understand and modify those systems. Why can't my plan include continuing to convince people to pay me to do what I like and have acquired skill in?

henrik_w 10y ago

I just turned 50, I still code, and I still love it. In fact, I can't think of I job I'd rather do. So, no, it doesn't have to end.

whyenot 10y ago

I think you meant to say "I don't want to be coding by age 50."

zwieback 10y ago

Turned 50 this year, coding every day although my job includes loads of other stuff as well. One of the advantages of having 35 years of coding and engineering experience is that it's easier to judge the value of "innovations" in the field.

collyw 10y ago
Its also quite depressing when everyone is jumping to the latest fads when they are often an inferior solution.

terrywilcox 10y ago

I'm happily coding at 51.

jwadhwani 10y ago
Me at 59:-)
- ahoeltje 10y ago
  I am 64 and still love to write software, but currently unemployed. Unfortunately the software industry here in the San Francisco area seems to think that a 20'something who has memorized a few buzzword algorithms from their recent college experience, has no social life and willing to be in a cubical for 12 hours a day, is a more valuable employee. Their lower pay grade may have something to do with it. I had a real job interview last month. The 25 year old "team lead" asked me (in broken English, his second language) to write a bubble sort - in real code - on the white board. Seriously.

AnimalMuppet 10y ago

I'm 54. I'm a coder. The last two jobs I got hired for, in the interview I said that my explicit career goal was to never become a manager. In a follow-up post, you said that you don't want to spend all your time in front of a screen. Well, I work for places where management is mostly sane, and panics are few. I work 40 hours a week with very rare exceptions. Outside of that, I have a life that doesn't involve staring at screens. It has actual humans in it (plus a dog and a cat). It sounds like you want to be retired by fifty. Well, I didn't plan well enough for that. Part of that is health issues of some people around me - they need my income, they have some doctor bills, they can't eat garbage so their food is somewhat more expensive. I'd prefer it to be otherwise, but I'm not going to walk away from them. So I need money, and programming pays pretty well.

Applejinx 10y ago

My God. Really? It's very strange reading this. I'm 48 and it blows my mind to hear that 38-year-olds are unemployable as coders. I ran airwindows.com for nearly a decade as a traditional product-selling business and brought in about a quarter of a million dollars all told, and then when my payment processor went out of business, I took it to patreon.com/airwindows and started putting my products out for free to get them in the hands of people who can no longer afford $50 a plugin. I'm going to be open-sourcing stuff, too, and continue to develop new concepts. 'coder' as a salaried drudge sounds like you just do what you're told. A person like that cannot run an independent business for ten years, and perhaps shouldn't be 'coding'. For some of us, for me, it's like saying 'you don't want to be guitar playing (or singing, drumming, etc) by age 50'. It just highlights a really profound disparity in viewpoint there. I can imagine young slave labor stacking the market against me (this is part of why I went to a patronage model, new as it is to me) but don't tell me not to code. That's crazy talk :)

foobarge 10y ago

I'm nearing 50 and I'm still coding. I'm looking forward to retirement where I'll be able to code more (contributing to open source stuff for instance) and do all the things I don't have the time to do now (more hardware, etc...)