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Most of Tesla's issues are with the name. Drivers assume this is a fully autonomous driving system. This leads to big problems. I have seen videos of drivers sl

• mikeash 10y ago
  I never understood how the public decided that "autopilot" means a fully autonomous system. I grudgingly admit that some people think this way, but how did it happen?
  • maxxxxx 10y ago
    To me it clearly means that the system is autonomous while the autopilot is on. What else should it mean?
    • the8472 10y ago
      Pilots aren't allowed to leave the cockpit just because the plane is on autopilot.
      • alistairSH 10y ago
        Yet, there are documented cases where the pilots have had enough faith in the system to take a nap or play around on their laptops.
      • maxxxxx 10y ago
        They certainly don't have to be ready to intervene within a fraction of a second as you have to do with Tesla.
    • mikeash 10y ago
      Real-world autopilots cover a wide range of pilot aids, down to something as simple as a gyroscope mechanically connected to the rudder in order to automatically hold heading. Most are more capable than that, but typical autopilot features would involve holding heading, altitude (or rate of climb/descent), and speed, or navigating towards a particular point. Fully autonomous autopilots are extremely rare, and I'm not aware of any commercial system where the pilot is allowed to ignore the airplane while the system is engaged. So, again, how did you get this idea?
      • throwaway729 10y ago
        > So, again, how did you get this idea? Because, as JonnieCache pointed out, the colloquial definition of Auto Pilot is more informed by entertainment than by the aerospace industry. What's more baffling is why anyone would assume that the average person knows what "auto pilot" means in an aerospace setting. I mean, why in the world would that be common knowledge? In fact, I've seen enough bone-headed assertions about collision avoidance capabilities of modern aircraft that I'm pretty certain even people who think they know what auto pilot means, actually don't. FWIW you can test this by finding people outside of the tech echo chamber who don't know what a Tesla is and asking them to describe the capabilities of a car with an Auto Pilot.
        • mikeash 10y ago
          You're not answering the question, you're just repeating the basis of it. I accept that people think it means it's autonomous. Stop repeating that as if it were new to me. What I want to know is why people think that. "Because everybody thinks that, if you'd bother to ask them" is not an answer to that question.
          • throwaway729 10y ago
            > What I want to know is why people think that Re-read the first sentence of my post. Perhaps you could answer my question: why would you assume someone with no knowledge of the aerospace industry would understand what the term auto pilot means in that context? Why would anyone assume the TCAS specification has a greater effect on public perception than the latest comic book movie?
            • mikeash 10y ago
              Do you have examples of this misconception being propagated by entertainment? I'm having trouble thinking of any, but that might just be my low level of knowledge. I'm not going to answer your question because you're trying to make me defend a position I'm not taking here.
          • 10y ago
  • JonnieCache 10y ago
    Because every use they've ever seen of that phrase up until now has been in sci-fi shows, where the autopilot is an AI that flies the ship while you go back to the lounge to play 3d chess and drink dry ice cocktails? In a world where you're constantly bombarded with press releases about self driving cars and how theyre just around the corner, its not exactly unexpected to think that an autopilot system will pilot your car automatically, especially when tesla is so heavily associated with silicon valley. It may have a real use in planes or boats but approximately noone is familiar with that.
    • masklinn 10y ago
      There's also the part where the sky doesn't have many obstacles, so once you engage the autopilot you can probably go and take a piss, an alarm will go off if something's weird and the copilot will have more than enough time to get their bearings, if only because you're 30kft up not 5ft away from the obstacle.
  • Buttons840 10y ago
    "autopilot" "autonomous" Why is it so surprising that people think the prefix "auto-" means automatic or autonomous.
    • mikeash 10y ago
      It does mean automatic. Automatic does not mean "no human intervention or supervision" though. And it's surprising because "autopilot" has been a real-world technology for about a century and that real-world technology almost never allows pilots to leave the plane unsupervised.
      • alistairSH 10y ago
        A non-pilot probably has very little clue how an actual airline autopilot works. Nor would I expect them to.
        • mikeash 10y ago
          I wouldn't either, but I would expect either knowing that or not knowing how it works at all, not "knowing" that they're fully autonomous. But I'm probably expecting too much.
      • Buttons840 10y ago
        I typed "define automatic" into Google and got "working by itself with little or no direct human control".
  • RodericDay 10y ago
    Every time I hear this "defense" it reeks of disingenuous fanboyism. People invoke factoids about how autopilot for airplane pilots works (they have training!) as if it was common knowledge. Let's be clear here: Very few people know anything about airplane cockpits. When people read "autopilot" they think "automatic pilot" ie: the thing drives itself, similar to "auto login" login you in without a click. Marketing knows this, we all know this, let's not pretend it was an innocent mistake.
    • mikeash 10y ago
      It's great that you think I'm being disingenuous. I'm not even defending it here. I'm just asking a legitimate question: how did people end up with this impression? I seriously do not understand it. "Automatic" does not imply "requires zero supervision."
      • pjc50 10y ago
        People got the impression from films where the autopilot is a plot device: a character turns it on and then leaves the controls to go further the plot of the film. Also, http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/autopilot http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/autopilot "a device that steers a ship, aircraft, or spacecraft in place of a person" In place of. Not under the constant supervision of.
        • mikeash 10y ago
          I don't see how that definition conflicts with real autopilots. The autopilot does the steering instead of the human. The human supervises. On a ship, for example, the helmsman is steering, but the officer of the deck is in charge.
          • pjc50 10y ago
            It doesn't necessarily conflict, but for someone who has no experience of real autopilots (ie most people), the assumption would be that it can do the job of driving the car so they don't have to.
  • blackguardx 10y ago
    Look at how the word was formed. It came from Automatic - "(of a device or process) working by itself with little or no direct human control" and Pilot - "a person who operates the flying controls of an aircraft" In the 50s or 60s or whenever they were first introduced, it was incredibly novel to have some portion of aircraft control handled by a machine. To go from partial machine control to fully machine control seems like a natural evolution and I think the name speaks for that evolution. I think it is fair that most consumers think that "autopilot" implies fully autonomous driving. No one calls cruise control an autopilot when in fact it is a crude form of one.
    • mikeash 10y ago
      "Little or no direct human control" is pretty far from "zero human supervision" so the etymological argument doesn't really do it for me. Lots of cars have "automatic transmissions" but nobody gets upset when it fails to shift into reverse on its own based on contextual clues.
      • electic 10y ago
        A big part of this is movies. When they show auto-pilot in the movies, people get up and just leave. There are countless times I have seen this play out in the movies and people think cars with the same name should behave the same way.
        • mikeash 10y ago
          Do you have an example? The only one that comes to mind is Airplane! where the whole thing is played for laughs. I'm not questioning it, I'm just unfamiliar.
          • etendue 10y ago
            Demolition Man, I Robot, or Minority Report
            • 10y ago
  • DavidWanjiru 10y ago
    Is "auto" in autopilot short for automatic or automobile? It's just occurred to me it could be either if you want to be strict or pedantic. I automatically assume it's short for automatic pilot, which most people would assume means "it drives - pilots - itself," and that may be reason people assume the technology is more like a chauffeur. But if by autopilot Tesla mean automobile pilot (I admittedly don't think that's the case), then the meaning would probably change.
    • mikeash 10y ago
      It does drive itself, with human supervision. Just like the automatic transmission shifts gears by itself but still needs human input.
      • UnoriginalGuy 10y ago
        That's a strange example. An automatic transmission needs no human input at all. You put it in D, and leave it in D, until you stop driving most of the time. Did you mean manual transmissions?
        • mikeash 10y ago
          It's pretty common that you need to shift it to R. Nobody leaves it in D while backing out of a parking spot and then complains that the automatic transmission didn't do its job when they collide with the wall in front of them.
          • icebraining 10y ago
            Sure, when you want to indicate a different intention, you need to interact with it, but you don't need to keep watching over it in case it suddenly switches to R.
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• sixseven 10y ago
  Sure Tesla could've named it better, but anyone who put their life on the hand of an immature technology is beyond my comprehension. News of crashes from people using Auto Pilot comes up here and there, why are people still willing to risk their life on trusting it?
  • fucking_tragedy 10y ago
    Most people aren't and shouldn't be concerned with the technical details of a consumer product's implementation, especially when it is marketed as Autopilot and, in practice, it creates a false sense of security. Tesla marketed their immature technology with the name Autopilot, they failed to include safety features their competitors' vehicles had and they knew how people behaved (trusted and crashed) because of it. I find it hard to fault consumers for naively putting trust in their vehicles.
  • mtgx 10y ago
    This is like arguing that people are stupid for thinking that their email is private. Most people don't know even 1% of the intricacies of the technology products or services that they are using. The responsibility rests almost entirely on the provider to offer a "safe" product (and that means also offering protection against the "stupidity" of users).
  • UnoriginalGuy 10y ago
    > but anyone who put their life on the hand of an immature technology is beyond my comprehension. Because humans are flawed. The real question is why is our regulatory framework so weak that they can ship "immature technology" that's safety critical in a consumer vehicle.
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• toddmorey 10y ago
  That has been my thought exactly! And they'd still have the opportunity to then use the autopilot brand once the appropriate level of autonomy was reached. Co-pilot --> Autopilot feels much stronger than Autopilot --> Autopilot Plus™ or similar.
• lj3 10y ago
  Don't pilots typically sleep on long trips while their co-pilot flies the plane? Maybe a better term to use would be "assist". "assisted driving system" or "assisted highway driving"?
• greglindahl 10y ago
  Is there any proof of your claim? I see it repeatedly repeated here on HN, but that doesn't make it true. For example, a video of a driver sleeping while driving doesn't mean that the name is an issue.
• gallerdude 10y ago
  Ironically, I recall it was called autopilot to be the conservative synonym for self-driving. I guess it wasn't conservative enough.
  • m_mueller 10y ago
    How would autopilot be "conservative"? It's right there in the word: Pilots itself.
    • gallerdude 10y ago
      Well, not really. Autopilot, in airplanes at least, can maintain the course, but not much besides that.
      • manicdee 10y ago
        The catch being that muggles do not understand that autopilot isn't taking decision-making and situational awareness responsibility away from the human pilot.
      • m_mueller 10y ago
        That's why autopilot is probably a misnomer even in aviation, that doesn't make its use in Teslas any better though.
      • IsThisNameValid 10y ago
        In an airplane of sufficient complexity, the autopilot will be controlled by a computer (ussually refered to as an FMS {Flight Management System}). You can program a set of desired waypoints, along with a desired time of arrival, and the plane will fly the desired route with high accuracy. (auto-throttle system is also required)
• luca_ing 10y ago
  > Most of Tesla's issues are with the name. Drivers assume this is a fully autonomous driving system. You are jumping too short. In my first year studying engineering, a professor told us "Expect misuse. If you're designing a radiator shaped such that people can sit on it, expect them to sit on it. I agree that it's a radiator and not a bench, but if you don't design for this kind of situation you are a terrible engineer." Translated to Tesla's situation: It's absolutely not enough to tell people that they should behave a certain way, and expect them to follow. Design the system such that they either have no choice but to obey, or have safe mechanisms for disobedience. Or don't deploy the system. If you want an automotive example, think of how your automatic gear lever is locked in P unless you have your foot on the brake. Braking when changing gears isn't just an admonition in the manual, it's enforced.
  • supercoder 10y ago
    But how do you design a bench to avoid it being used as a radiator.