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Tesla dropped by Mobileye for “pushing the envelope in terms of safety”
- the-dude 10y agoSee also the fatal crash in China just popped up today ( crash is from january ) : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12504888 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12504888
- TeeWEE 10y agoWow is it me, or is that cleaning-car on the far-left lane of the highway not being very dangerous by cleaning there with such a slow speed? In the Netherlands the whole lane would be dis-allowed to drive on if there was work going on there.
- the-dude 10y agoMaybe it was dis-allowed to drive ... the video does not make this clear. Or better, I do not speak Chinese.
- sixseven 10y agoAny slow moving vehicle on a high way is a hazard to other vehicles. Maybe that's a normal thing in China, but definitely not in Toronto. Judging from the video, the warning light from the cleaning truck was not sufficient even for human driver.
- whamlastxmas 10y agoExtremely dangerous. In the US there are entire convoys with giant flashing lights and crash barricades attached to the rear of work vehicles. They'd be blocking the entire left lane. This is a bigger failure for safety standards in China than it is a failing of Tesla. The rear-end collisions like this happen all the time without autopilot.
- wccrawford 10y agoWow, the autopilot failed spectacularly there. This really is something that is should have caught, IMO. It doesn't even seem to have tried to avoid it, even once it got very close. Even if you consider it a co-pilot, unless someone is paying as much attention as if they were really driving and was right in position to take control, I don't think they could have done much to mitigate this. At best, they might have jerked the car into the next lane, but even that could cause a fatal crash of that car or surrounding cars.
- spuz 10y agoThere's no evidence that Autopilot was enabled. It won't perform any avoiding action if it is not enabled.
- the-dude 10y agoThere is no evidence that Autopilot was disabled either.
- Cshelton 10y agoNo. But it is misleading for media to report "autopilot" caused a crash when we don't know yet.
- the-dude 10y agoWhich media did ?
- whamlastxmas 10y agoThey did the same thing when a woman plowed into the side of the building at 30MPH. Obviously Tesla said it wasn't enabled, but reporters didn't wait to hear back from Tesla.
- mikeash 10y agoInability to reliably detect completely stationary objects is a known and documented deficiency of the system. Not making excuses, just saying it's not a big surprise. My experience with the system is that it actually allows you to be more aware of things like this, because you can devote all of your attention to scanning the road far ahead, instead of switching between the distance and nearby details like where you are relative to the lines. However, that requires using the system in a way that understands and accommodates its limitations, which not everybody does.
- eganist 10y agoI mean, this doesn't really seem like the grandest news. It could've been safely inferred based on the releases at the time: http://www.wsj.com/articles/mobileye-ends-partnership-with-tesla-1469544028 http://www.wsj.com/articles/mobileye-ends-partnership-with-t... > Mobileye said it would no longer provide its computer chips and algorithms to Tesla after a current contract ends due to disagreements about how the technology was deployed. But it's good to have the exact reason Mobileye decided against renewing the contract in writing. I'm still keen to see how Volvo's system ends up since they (if I recall correctly) are the only car company which has so far indicated they would accept responsibility for incidents caused by their driverless system: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-34475031 http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-34475031 -- hopefully this'll compel their engineering teams to focus more on safety rather than MVP. I do wonder whether both Tesla and SpaceX are seeing the issues they're seeing because of the abysmal work-life balance at both companies. Great successes on both sides, but there are increases in risks of catastrophic failure in products from both companies which have already been realized. I'm sure work life balance isn't the only reason, but it wouldn't surprise me if Musk's inability to personally burn out isn't actually shared by the vast majority of his engineers.
- 6nf 10y agoVolvo's stated goal is improved safety on the road, both for the car's occupants and for other road users. Volvo are not adding sensors to make driving more convenient, they are adding sensors to make driving safer. The whole Volvo brand is built around feeling safe.
- electic 10y agoMost of Tesla's issues are with the name. Drivers assume this is a fully autonomous driving system. This leads to big problems. I have seen videos of drivers sleeping while the car drives itself down the highway. A more appropriate name would be co-pilot.
- mikeash 10y agoI never understood how the public decided that "autopilot" means a fully autonomous system. I grudgingly admit that some people think this way, but how did it happen?
- maxxxxx 10y agoTo me it clearly means that the system is autonomous while the autopilot is on. What else should it mean?
- the8472 10y agoPilots aren't allowed to leave the cockpit just because the plane is on autopilot.
- alistairSH 10y agoYet, there are documented cases where the pilots have had enough faith in the system to take a nap or play around on their laptops.
- maxxxxx 10y agoThey certainly don't have to be ready to intervene within a fraction of a second as you have to do with Tesla.
- mikeash 10y agoReal-world autopilots cover a wide range of pilot aids, down to something as simple as a gyroscope mechanically connected to the rudder in order to automatically hold heading. Most are more capable than that, but typical autopilot features would involve holding heading, altitude (or rate of climb/descent), and speed, or navigating towards a particular point. Fully autonomous autopilots are extremely rare, and I'm not aware of any commercial system where the pilot is allowed to ignore the airplane while the system is engaged. So, again, how did you get this idea?
- rfreytag 10y agoNoted caption on photo "A hirsute Sebastian using autopilot in a Tesla Model S." If this was said about a woman it would be sexist. Imagine if it said "Good looking Mary ... etc." outrage would be reasonable and forthcoming. I believe if we're going to be alert to sexism towards women we need to tune up our antennae to all sexism and have simple and clear standards that have a hope of applying cross-culturally. I welcome your alternate views below. I am genuinely interested in learning why you think I'm out of line here. :-)
- brainfire 10y agoJust for context, Sebastian Anthony is the editor of Ars Technica UK.
- rfreytag 10y agoThanks for your reply. But how does that make my criticism of written sexism here mistaken/inappropriate/wrong?
- the-dude 10y agoDo you like sex? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs3OWJ53rHE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs3OWJ53rHE
- sp332 10y agoGeneral rules that you use for strangers don't really apply to anyone you have a personal relationship with. And sexism is usually a problem of power mismatch between the two people, which doesn't really apply here either.
- rfreytag 10y agoThanks for your reply. I don't know these people and don't know their history. My opinion is that their comment should be clearly non-sexist or clearly relevant.
- huuu 10y agoIn an interview George Hotz said he told Elon to drop Mobileye. George is repeating how bad that company is. So it seems not only Tesla thinks Mobileye can't keep up with safety. Others noticed this too.
- Grazester 10y ago"No matter how you spin it, (Autopilot) is not designed for that. It is a driver assistance system and not a driverless system," Shashua said. This implies that Tesla's customers were not using the system as designer and possibly didn't want negative publicly of such affecting its business The article never stated anything about Tesla dropping Mobileye either but implied the opposite.
- toomuchtodo 10y ago"According to a Tesla spokesperson in a statement sent to Electrek today, Mobileye tried to convince Tesla to keep using its system for future generations of the Autopilot, but when it became apparent that Tesla was sticking to its new in-house system, which the company confirmed today is called ‘Tesla Vision’, they threaten to discontinue supply of the EyeQ3 chip to cripple the current version of the Autopilot." The unreasonable demands Mobileye made are listed in the below article I lifted the above quote from. https://electrek.co/2016/09/15/tesla-vision-mobileye-tesla-autopilot/ https://electrek.co/2016/09/15/tesla-vision-mobileye-tesla-a...
- UnoriginalGuy 10y agoYou seem to be confused. Tesla was the one who got dropped by Mobileye. Maybe you should read the article (or heck even the headline).
- helthanatos 10y agoWhat will happen when "autopilot" turns off because the driver ignores notifications? Could that cause more issues? It's good that the cars will use sensors around them better, but turning off the assist function may have some fatal bugs.
- spuz 10y agoIt seems that a plausible reason warning alarms would be ignored might be that the driver had a heart attack or stroke while auto-pilot was engaged. In that case, disabling all automation might be the worst response to the situation. I'm sure that Tesla engineers have considered this scenario but it certainly makes you realise that this is a hard problem to solve.
- toast0 10y agoA vehicle without driver aids and with sudden loss of driver inputs would tend to idle down the road until it hit an object sufficient to stop movement, or ran out of fuel, or the engine stalled for some reason. A better response to lack of driver input would be to come to a controlled stop, preferably out of the traffic lanes (since other Tesla vehicles have driver assistance technology which may not respond to a stationary vehicle in the lanes)