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while keeping the Mexicans in poverty How would an American wall keep Mexicans in poverty? Mexicans are free to create wealth themselves or by trading with th

by blfr 10y ago

while keeping the Mexicans in poverty How would an American wall keep Mexicans in poverty? Mexicans are free to create wealth themselves or by trading with the entire remaining world. They could even still sell to the US or work for US companies, just without moving there. If Trump was going to cordon Mexico off, there would be something to that argument. But they have access to two oceans.

yummyfajitas 10y ago
Very simple: the Wall prevents some Mexicans from working for willing employers who would pay them a wage above the poverty level. I'm not claiming that Mexico is a middle income country solely because of US immigration restrictions - far from it. Pointing out their trade opportunities would be a valid counterpoint to that claim. I think most of Mexico's economic problems are entirely self inflicted (same as for the US, Venezuela, or most other countries).
- blfr 10y ago
  The Wall doesn't even prevent Mexicans from working for a US employer. Any willing employer can invest in Mexico. And if Mexico's economic problems are self-inflicted then it makes perfect sense not to invite people who inflict such problems.
  - yummyfajitas 10y ago
    From what I can tell, the vast majority of harms that Mexicans inflict is done at the ballot box rather than the workplace. Note that I never advocated allowing Mexicans to vote; on the contrary, I'd like to disenfranchise bad American voters rather than enfranchising bad Mexican ones.
    - blfr 10y ago
      Among many ideas for improving democracy, disenfranchisement is probably the one most often tried and history clearly shows that it's unmaintainable. Sooner or later it always gives in and nearly everyone gets to vote. In modern US it will be sooner. There's simply no realistic path where people move into a large, modern European* country and remain second class residents with limited influence over the government. This state won't last a single generation. * USA included by heritage if not by geography
      - SamReidHughes 10y ago
        > This state won't last a single generation. Well yeah, of course their kids would get to vote.

by blfr 10y ago

yummyfajitas 10y ago

Very simple: the Wall prevents some Mexicans from working for willing employers who would pay them a wage above the poverty level. I'm not claiming that Mexico is a middle income country solely because of US immigration restrictions - far from it. Pointing out their trade opportunities would be a valid counterpoint to that claim. I think most of Mexico's economic problems are entirely self inflicted (same as for the US, Venezuela, or most other countries).

blfr 10y ago
The Wall doesn't even prevent Mexicans from working for a US employer. Any willing employer can invest in Mexico. And if Mexico's economic problems are self-inflicted then it makes perfect sense not to invite people who inflict such problems.
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  From what I can tell, the vast majority of harms that Mexicans inflict is done at the ballot box rather than the workplace. Note that I never advocated allowing Mexicans to vote; on the contrary, I'd like to disenfranchise bad American voters rather than enfranchising bad Mexican ones.
  - blfr 10y ago
    Among many ideas for improving democracy, disenfranchisement is probably the one most often tried and history clearly shows that it's unmaintainable. Sooner or later it always gives in and nearly everyone gets to vote. In modern US it will be sooner. There's simply no realistic path where people move into a large, modern European* country and remain second class residents with limited influence over the government. This state won't last a single generation. * USA included by heritage if not by geography
    - SamReidHughes 10y ago
      > This state won't last a single generation. Well yeah, of course their kids would get to vote.