5 ms·

WinRT means: * No app closure callbacks. You don't know if it's suspending or exiting. * No "are you sure you want to exit? Save/Don't save" dialogs. If you c

by koko775 10y ago

WinRT means: * No app closure callbacks. You don't know if it's suspending or exiting. * No "are you sure you want to exit? Save/Don't save" dialogs. If you close or crash pray your data was saved, and if it takes a long time to flush to disk...really pray. * No minimizing/backgrounding to tray icons allowed.

kodfodrasz 10y ago
* I guess You can create a background worker handling persistence, which runs until completion even if the UI has been closed. (I have not used UWP yet) * IMHO save/don't save dialogs are an usability antipattern. * Tray icons are also something of a remedy of the past. They are now replaced by background operations and live tiles. I can see why those can be problems, I can imagine the usecases you would solve using those tools, but the new app model is build around a slightly different workflow. But if you do not like the way to solve it as it is intended in the new app model, the solution is: report it/upvote it. If you tell your problems here, then some members of HN community will know it and understand it, but it is unlikely that it will be acted upon by Microsoft. For that you need to have your voice heard on their forums. (eg. feedback app, uservoice...)
WorldMaker 10y ago
There is a Suspending callback. Sounds like you have some misconceptions about the UWP/WinRT application lifecycle: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/launch-resume/app-lifecycle https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/launch-resume/a...
- m_fayer 10y ago
  If I recall correctly, this callback has some undocumented deadline. Go over that and it's unceremoniously killed, great way to corrupt whatever you're desperately trying to write to disk.
  - WorldMaker 10y ago
    No, it is a pretty well documented deadline at this point. The callback is not intended for I/O work, but to clean up resources or to spin up any background tasks you might need for I/O. There are lots of articles full of best practices for the app lifecycle. Yes, it's different than Win32. Yes, it's influenced by mobile and low resource environments. But it's better for it and worth learning.
emodendroket 10y ago
> No "are you sure you want to exit? Save/Don't save" dialogs. If you close or crash pray your data was saved, and if it takes a long time to flush to disk...really pray. Of course not, because it's supposed to also work on mobile. Does your iPad let applications prevent you from going back to the home screen?
- flukus 10y ago
  > Of course not, because it's supposed to also work on mobile. Does your iPad let applications prevent you from going back to the home screen? You don't see the problem here? Why do I want the restrictions of mobile phones limiting my desktop applications?
  - emodendroket 10y ago
    Well, for one, I don't see how else the concept of "universal apps" could possibly work.
    - flukus 10y ago
      Neither do I. The question then becomes "should they exist?".
      - emodendroket 10y ago
        It might not be a good fit for Office. But it seems fine for some applications.
        kodfodrasz 10y ago
        It's totally OK for Office, just because you are accustomed to something. You can try the office mobile product line on windows 10 (available from the store), which is UWP, and pretty usable for its limited feature set, and the lack of "do you do u really really really want to quit?" modal popups. Bashing UWP for advocating a different app model, and different UI design principles is like still using bash in 2016 because you are accustomed to ash from the 70s, and GUIs cannot go to start of line with Ctrl-A, thus saying they are inferior. Change has its positive sides and drawbacks, but in both cases it is mostly for the better.

by koko775 10y ago

kodfodrasz 10y ago

* I guess You can create a background worker handling persistence, which runs until completion even if the UI has been closed. (I have not used UWP yet) * IMHO save/don't save dialogs are an usability antipattern. * Tray icons are also something of a remedy of the past. They are now replaced by background operations and live tiles. I can see why those can be problems, I can imagine the usecases you would solve using those tools, but the new app model is build around a slightly different workflow. But if you do not like the way to solve it as it is intended in the new app model, the solution is: report it/upvote it. If you tell your problems here, then some members of HN community will know it and understand it, but it is unlikely that it will be acted upon by Microsoft. For that you need to have your voice heard on their forums. (eg. feedback app, uservoice...)

WorldMaker 10y ago

There is a Suspending callback. Sounds like you have some misconceptions about the UWP/WinRT application lifecycle: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/launch-resume/app-lifecycle https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/launch-resume/a...

m_fayer 10y ago
If I recall correctly, this callback has some undocumented deadline. Go over that and it's unceremoniously killed, great way to corrupt whatever you're desperately trying to write to disk.
- WorldMaker 10y ago
  No, it is a pretty well documented deadline at this point. The callback is not intended for I/O work, but to clean up resources or to spin up any background tasks you might need for I/O. There are lots of articles full of best practices for the app lifecycle. Yes, it's different than Win32. Yes, it's influenced by mobile and low resource environments. But it's better for it and worth learning.

emodendroket 10y ago

> No "are you sure you want to exit? Save/Don't save" dialogs. If you close or crash pray your data was saved, and if it takes a long time to flush to disk...really pray. Of course not, because it's supposed to also work on mobile. Does your iPad let applications prevent you from going back to the home screen?

flukus 10y ago
> Of course not, because it's supposed to also work on mobile. Does your iPad let applications prevent you from going back to the home screen? You don't see the problem here? Why do I want the restrictions of mobile phones limiting my desktop applications?
- emodendroket 10y ago
  Well, for one, I don't see how else the concept of "universal apps" could possibly work.
  - flukus 10y ago
    Neither do I. The question then becomes "should they exist?".
    - emodendroket 10y ago
      It might not be a good fit for Office. But it seems fine for some applications.
      - kodfodrasz 10y ago
        It's totally OK for Office, just because you are accustomed to something. You can try the office mobile product line on windows 10 (available from the store), which is UWP, and pretty usable for its limited feature set, and the lack of "do you do u really really really want to quit?" modal popups. Bashing UWP for advocating a different app model, and different UI design principles is like still using bash in 2016 because you are accustomed to ash from the 70s, and GUIs cannot go to start of line with Ctrl-A, thus saying they are inferior. Change has its positive sides and drawbacks, but in both cases it is mostly for the better.