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Whenever this topic comes up, I see a rush to deny that ageism is a problem in the industry, or that it isn't ageism alone but bad choices made by certain peopl

Whenever this topic comes up, I see a rush to deny that ageism is a problem in the industry, or that it isn't ageism alone but bad choices made by certain people, or... It would bother me, but I know that ageism is one form of discrimination that eventually hits us all. Beware, young people. The rationalization you do today will be used against you in a couple of decades. And you'll know better then, but you're not listening to the gray-hairs today, and probably neither will the people refusing to hire you then. Fortunately, some companies treat their gray-hairs better than others, and while you'd think startups were the best route of all, since no boss can refuse to hire you then, it turns out that ageism is pretty widespread, and it can be hard to get funding for a startup, and even hard to land customers if you're the public face of a startup. Every year, we all get a bit closer to it happening to us.

csydas 10y ago
I think a lot of this is more lack of exposure rather thanan intentional denial. The ageism that happens in technology is hard for younger people to recognize and acknowledge because they don't have first hand experience with it, and stories online only go so far since it's hard to verify. This, combined with the fact that there is a strong sense of meritocray when it comes to technology, and I think people just naturally assume that your work always speaks for itself. This is one of those things where more visibility and discussion will eventually help, it's just right now there's a large social aspect that needs to be dealt with first. Personally, I'm very familiar with the difficulties older coders face as one of my colleagues at my last job battled it pretty much daily, and even when he took over as lead programmer for our small university, the management and even his underlings really didn't want to listen to him much either. But he was stuck - like a lot of people at the University, he wanted to leave because things were getting bad across the board (management issues resulting in enrollment loss, which means less money), but he was 50+. Since we were in the Seattle Area, this meant the only tech hiring was Amazon and other Seattle based start ups, none of which wanted a 50+ year old man, even if he could hack and plan with the best of them. It's experiences like this that I think help shape people's perspective. A more personal experience, seeing it actually affect someone in exactly the way they described it. It would be great if we could just accept that sometimes people's biases do influence their judgement, but sometimes it requires a more impactful approach.
YeGoblynQueenne 10y ago
>> ageism is one form of discrimination that eventually hits us all. Indeed, it's the silliest form of short-termism. Then again, when you're young you can't help thinking you 'll never grow old. It's what being young means in the first place.
gaius 10y ago
It boggles my mind how many people seem to believe that sexism is the industry's fault but ageism is the victim's fault.
- mixmastamyk 10y ago
  This should be top level comment.
- gohrt 10y ago
  Who believes that? Maybe the people who believe that sexism is the industry's fault also believe ageism is the victim's fault?
  - gaius 10y ago
    Surely they are both the industry's fault?

csydas 10y ago

I think a lot of this is more lack of exposure rather thanan intentional denial. The ageism that happens in technology is hard for younger people to recognize and acknowledge because they don't have first hand experience with it, and stories online only go so far since it's hard to verify. This, combined with the fact that there is a strong sense of meritocray when it comes to technology, and I think people just naturally assume that your work always speaks for itself. This is one of those things where more visibility and discussion will eventually help, it's just right now there's a large social aspect that needs to be dealt with first. Personally, I'm very familiar with the difficulties older coders face as one of my colleagues at my last job battled it pretty much daily, and even when he took over as lead programmer for our small university, the management and even his underlings really didn't want to listen to him much either. But he was stuck - like a lot of people at the University, he wanted to leave because things were getting bad across the board (management issues resulting in enrollment loss, which means less money), but he was 50+. Since we were in the Seattle Area, this meant the only tech hiring was Amazon and other Seattle based start ups, none of which wanted a 50+ year old man, even if he could hack and plan with the best of them. It's experiences like this that I think help shape people's perspective. A more personal experience, seeing it actually affect someone in exactly the way they described it. It would be great if we could just accept that sometimes people's biases do influence their judgement, but sometimes it requires a more impactful approach.

YeGoblynQueenne 10y ago

>> ageism is one form of discrimination that eventually hits us all. Indeed, it's the silliest form of short-termism. Then again, when you're young you can't help thinking you 'll never grow old. It's what being young means in the first place.

gaius 10y ago

It boggles my mind how many people seem to believe that sexism is the industry's fault but ageism is the victim's fault.

mixmastamyk 10y ago
This should be top level comment.
gohrt 10y ago
Who believes that? Maybe the people who believe that sexism is the industry's fault also believe ageism is the victim's fault?
- gaius 10y ago
  Surely they are both the industry's fault?