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I am afraid the story is total and complete crap. The reality is that Amazon is Logan's run. Yes, PE engineers are old and yes they are a tiny percentage of

I am afraid the story is total and complete crap. The reality is that Amazon is Logan's run. Yes, PE engineers are old and yes they are a tiny percentage of the total army. What does that tell you? It tells you that they keep a tiny number around to make engineers believe there is a path. The reality is though that path is only for a very very select few.. <- Ex Amazon engineer.

blazespin 10y ago
Wow, I'm so amused at the downvotes. It's like a completely and absolute denial of reality. If you imagine for a moment that PE role is a realistic path for a typical engineer at amazon you are in total fantasy world.
- eps 10y ago
  Downvotes are for your "complete crap" remark, which is unnecessarily rude.
  - flukus 10y ago
    You must get offended a lot.
  - blazespin 10y ago
    Was it? The reality is that you have someone who has benefited from having either a hugely beneficial nurtured environment or perfect DNA trying to espouse that this is actually realistic for all engineers at amazon. It isn't! Trust me! Amazon grinds you as much as possible. If you imagine for a moment that you are a typical engineer at amazon and your ass will age like fine wine you are being totally and utterly manipulated. That being said, there are ways to succeed as you age. Working at amazon is not one of them. Specializing in engineering areas that require a track record of deliverables is. It's Bayesian probability. That is what your advantage is if you are old. Being trustworthy helps in things like security. Young kids between the age of 16-25 are freakin random and they might be the next snowden for all a manager knows. Older people who have never done anything irresponsible in their life can benefit here. Also, leveraging technologies in your resume that are once again fashionable. Devops in the cloud, neural networks in deep learning, etc. Is any of this fair? Of course the F not. But neither is being discriminated against because you're old.
    - PhasmaFelis 10y ago
      No one's disagreeing with your point. But when you open with unnecessary rude snarkiness, people will dismiss you before you even get to your point. Presentation is important.
mabbo 10y ago
I know a number of Amazon SDE2s who are over 40. P/Es are also merit based, not seniority based. Perhaps you just had a bad experience and blame the entire company for it rather than the particular situation you were in.
- amzn-336495 10y ago
  That is sad. They could have made double the SDE2 salary of $120k somewhere else. No one is really sure what Amazon PE's did or do to be a principal engineer. Most people think PE's bribed or extorted their way into the job at Amazon as that is the only realistic "path" to that particular job. All that Amazon SDE's know is that there are two levels, SDE 1 and SDE 2 which comprise 95% of Amazon SDE jobs and 99.9% of open positions. Both pay less than every other place.
  - mabbo 10y ago
    Interesting. I won't disagree with you that the path from 2 to 3 has been awkward in the past. But there have been major changes lately because it was identified as a problem, and it's shown results. I now work with 3 SDE3s between two related teams. Meanwhile, a friend and sometimes mentor of mine just got his PE promotion. I honestly take offense to the notion that he didn't deserve it, that he bribed his way into it. Fantastic developer and well deserving of the title.
    - amzn-336495 10y ago
      What are the major changes that were instituted and what are the results?
  - gohrt 10y ago
    Most Amazon SDE2s are in the queue applying for jobs elsewhere.

blazespin 10y ago

Wow, I'm so amused at the downvotes. It's like a completely and absolute denial of reality. If you imagine for a moment that PE role is a realistic path for a typical engineer at amazon you are in total fantasy world.

eps 10y ago
Downvotes are for your "complete crap" remark, which is unnecessarily rude.
- flukus 10y ago
  You must get offended a lot.
- blazespin 10y ago
  Was it? The reality is that you have someone who has benefited from having either a hugely beneficial nurtured environment or perfect DNA trying to espouse that this is actually realistic for all engineers at amazon. It isn't! Trust me! Amazon grinds you as much as possible. If you imagine for a moment that you are a typical engineer at amazon and your ass will age like fine wine you are being totally and utterly manipulated. That being said, there are ways to succeed as you age. Working at amazon is not one of them. Specializing in engineering areas that require a track record of deliverables is. It's Bayesian probability. That is what your advantage is if you are old. Being trustworthy helps in things like security. Young kids between the age of 16-25 are freakin random and they might be the next snowden for all a manager knows. Older people who have never done anything irresponsible in their life can benefit here. Also, leveraging technologies in your resume that are once again fashionable. Devops in the cloud, neural networks in deep learning, etc. Is any of this fair? Of course the F not. But neither is being discriminated against because you're old.
  - PhasmaFelis 10y ago
    No one's disagreeing with your point. But when you open with unnecessary rude snarkiness, people will dismiss you before you even get to your point. Presentation is important.

mabbo 10y ago

I know a number of Amazon SDE2s who are over 40. P/Es are also merit based, not seniority based. Perhaps you just had a bad experience and blame the entire company for it rather than the particular situation you were in.

amzn-336495 10y ago
That is sad. They could have made double the SDE2 salary of $120k somewhere else. No one is really sure what Amazon PE's did or do to be a principal engineer. Most people think PE's bribed or extorted their way into the job at Amazon as that is the only realistic "path" to that particular job. All that Amazon SDE's know is that there are two levels, SDE 1 and SDE 2 which comprise 95% of Amazon SDE jobs and 99.9% of open positions. Both pay less than every other place.
- mabbo 10y ago
  Interesting. I won't disagree with you that the path from 2 to 3 has been awkward in the past. But there have been major changes lately because it was identified as a problem, and it's shown results. I now work with 3 SDE3s between two related teams. Meanwhile, a friend and sometimes mentor of mine just got his PE promotion. I honestly take offense to the notion that he didn't deserve it, that he bribed his way into it. Fantastic developer and well deserving of the title.
  - amzn-336495 10y ago
    What are the major changes that were instituted and what are the results?
- gohrt 10y ago
  Most Amazon SDE2s are in the queue applying for jobs elsewhere.