3 ms·

Did you have to upgrade clusters for your clients yet? Is there a way upgrade clusters to a newer version of k8s safely?

by shad42 10y ago

old-gregg 10y ago
It is definitely not easy using "naked" open source Kubernetes, but it can be done. My company [1] packages Kubernetes-on-autopilot, which includes HA-configuration, single-click updates to the latest k8s version, etc. We run it for our customers on their AWS clouds and even on enterprise infrastructure. So it's just with any OSS project: DIY-vs-invest-into-tooling. A huge benefit of adopting Kubernetes for your SaaS product is this: it becomes much easier to push updates to enterprise environments. Selling SaaS to private clouds is pretty sweet: the size of a deal is larger but the incremental cost of R&D and ops (!) is now very low, because of standardized deployment models like k8s (what we do) or Mesos. [1] https://gravitational.com https://gravitational.com
- sandGorgon 10y ago
  whats your opinion using plain vanilla Salt vs kube-up vs kube-aws vs the new kops ? the problem with k8s is that there is way too much stuff happening now and it is hard to get started quickly. For example, we started using Docker when it was alpha - for a single man startup.. getting up and started was very easy. On the other hand, using k8s on a 3 node cluster is... scary.
  - old-gregg 10y ago
    In my opinion, kube-up and other kubernetes-specific provisioning helpers were created with the goal of letting people of varying backgrounds to complete numerous Quick Starts and tutorials with minimal pre-requisites. They make no assumptions about user's expertise in system administration. For production use, you should definitely embrace the tooling you have already invested in and make Kubernetes a part of it. How else would you integrate it with your existing identity management, monitoring, storage/backups, etc. I am no expert in Salt, but I'm assuming Ansible (my choice) is similar, then yes: building a solid set of Salt recipes would be my recommendation, or just hire us: we'll install and manage hundreds of clusters for you, one for each engineer, even. ;)
    - sidegrid 10y ago
      or just hire us :)
      - MattRogish 10y ago
        We start from kops, but tweak it. Kops is great, except it's not integrated into the rest of your VPC etc. as 'old-gregg' suggests. Or you could hire us, too. We do consulting/kube-as-a-service for folks in AWS/GKE :D (https://www.reactiveops.com https://www.reactiveops.com).
        sandGorgon 10y ago
        we had taken this conversation to mail, but this is what I wrote: its an ecosystem question. Docker became wildly successful because a developer could start using it in production within minutes. In early stage startups there is NO difference between developers and devops. All of these developers who deployed their MVP apps on docker (like me) are the ones who are starting to pay for services like Codeship, etc. We have grown with the Docker ecosystem. The question is whether k8s is giving us that flexibility ? I dont see that. For example, the next easy step up for people is Docker-compose: single host.. many services. And that gradually extends to docker-swarm. Lot of people say I "don't need k8s for 3 node cluster", but I'm still stuck...because I need to do something. So I have to use docker compose. And then I'm solidly locked into the docker ecosystem. That's the problem - your value prop is great when someone has 100 clusters... But I'm asking you from an ecosystem perspective : how will you make sure someone like me will choose k8s at some point in the future, when it is unusable for me right now ? Or do you believe that k8s is so vastly superior to anything else out there, that when I scale up enough... I will have no choice but to move to it (and then call you for help)

Did you have to upgrade clusters for your clients yet? Is there a way upgrade clusters to a newer version of k8s safely?

by shad42 10y ago

Did you have to upgrade clusters for your clients yet? Is there a way upgrade clusters to a newer version of k8s safely?

old-gregg 10y ago

It is definitely not easy using "naked" open source Kubernetes, but it can be done. My company [1] packages Kubernetes-on-autopilot, which includes HA-configuration, single-click updates to the latest k8s version, etc. We run it for our customers on their AWS clouds and even on enterprise infrastructure. So it's just with any OSS project: DIY-vs-invest-into-tooling. A huge benefit of adopting Kubernetes for your SaaS product is this: it becomes much easier to push updates to enterprise environments. Selling SaaS to private clouds is pretty sweet: the size of a deal is larger but the incremental cost of R&D and ops (!) is now very low, because of standardized deployment models like k8s (what we do) or Mesos. [1] https://gravitational.com https://gravitational.com

sandGorgon 10y ago
whats your opinion using plain vanilla Salt vs kube-up vs kube-aws vs the new kops ? the problem with k8s is that there is way too much stuff happening now and it is hard to get started quickly. For example, we started using Docker when it was alpha - for a single man startup.. getting up and started was very easy. On the other hand, using k8s on a 3 node cluster is... scary.
- old-gregg 10y ago
  In my opinion, kube-up and other kubernetes-specific provisioning helpers were created with the goal of letting people of varying backgrounds to complete numerous Quick Starts and tutorials with minimal pre-requisites. They make no assumptions about user's expertise in system administration. For production use, you should definitely embrace the tooling you have already invested in and make Kubernetes a part of it. How else would you integrate it with your existing identity management, monitoring, storage/backups, etc. I am no expert in Salt, but I'm assuming Ansible (my choice) is similar, then yes: building a solid set of Salt recipes would be my recommendation, or just hire us: we'll install and manage hundreds of clusters for you, one for each engineer, even. ;)
  - sidegrid 10y ago
    or just hire us :)
    - MattRogish 10y ago
      We start from kops, but tweak it. Kops is great, except it's not integrated into the rest of your VPC etc. as 'old-gregg' suggests. Or you could hire us, too. We do consulting/kube-as-a-service for folks in AWS/GKE :D (https://www.reactiveops.com https://www.reactiveops.com).
      - sandGorgon 10y ago
        we had taken this conversation to mail, but this is what I wrote: its an ecosystem question. Docker became wildly successful because a developer could start using it in production within minutes. In early stage startups there is NO difference between developers and devops. All of these developers who deployed their MVP apps on docker (like me) are the ones who are starting to pay for services like Codeship, etc. We have grown with the Docker ecosystem. The question is whether k8s is giving us that flexibility ? I dont see that. For example, the next easy step up for people is Docker-compose: single host.. many services. And that gradually extends to docker-swarm. Lot of people say I "don't need k8s for 3 node cluster", but I'm still stuck...because I need to do something. So I have to use docker compose. And then I'm solidly locked into the docker ecosystem. That's the problem - your value prop is great when someone has 100 clusters... But I'm asking you from an ecosystem perspective : how will you make sure someone like me will choose k8s at some point in the future, when it is unusable for me right now ? Or do you believe that k8s is so vastly superior to anything else out there, that when I scale up enough... I will have no choice but to move to it (and then call you for help)