3 ms·

I, like so many around me in the Bay Area, work at a startup. Sick days are not even something that I can contemplate at an early stage startup.

by smb06 10y ago

eli 10y ago
That's not the only way to run a startup. People should go home if they're sick and rest. That's how you get better and become more productive in the long run, in addition to just being the right thing to do.
BinaryIdiot 10y ago
Yeah the last start-up I worked at we had "unlimited" time off. I took almost a week off when I was sick once. The only time I've ever done that in my life but since it was unlimited time and I felt so awful (even went to the doctor's!) I thought I should finally use my generous benefit. Let's just say a non-critical component I was working on was delayed by me being sick and it was counted against me later on. I noped right the fuck out of there as soon as I could. Always be skeptical of the ones offering "unlimited" time off. Because it's never unlimited, in my experience.
- Someone1234 10y ago
  Unlimited time off and zero days time off are pretty much the same thing. If they really wanted you to take time off they'd have a minimum, but strangely few "unlimited" companies do, why is that? Most non-unlimited companies give you a set amount that "expire" which essentially encourages you to use them all (which is a GOOD thing). PS - And no doubt there will be an anecdote below about the one company that does have a minimum. My point is that that company is a unicorn, most unlimited companies have no minimum and don't legitimately expect/want you to take a lot of days.
  - dawnerd 10y ago
    With unlimited they're not giving you PTO when you leave the company. It's a real nice way to give a finger. If anything the policy should be X many PTO hours but past that it's still unlimited.
  - joesmo 10y ago
    Couldn't agree more. I assume that somewhere in such contracts there is a limit similar to how cell phone carriers' "unlimited" plan is always limited or some clause with more generic language doing the same thing. Otherwise what's to stop one from coming in the first day and taking a year off afterwards? Can an employer in an at-will state fire an employee for taking his vacation according to company policy? Or, someone could come in for the first day, then start taking days off. At some point, I'm sure the employer will fire them, but they still have to pay the employee for all those days off. More broadly, my question is this: Since clearly, you cannot have unlimited vacation, what is the actual legal language in contracts at such companies that creates the situation of "unlimited" vacation and what exactly is that situation legally (since it's obviously not unlimited vacation)?
    - emmp 10y ago
      Yup I have "unlimited". It's "recommended" to take at least 2 weeks. Greater than 4 weeks requires executive approval though!
- pkaye 10y ago
  Do you think this reflects more on this particular employer or unlimited time off policy? I just view the unlimited as equal or greater than industry average days. Most companies give 20 days vacation plus sick in my area so I feel untitled to that much. The rest is just icing on the cake if I get.
  - BinaryIdiot 10y ago
    > Do you think this reflects more on this particular employer or unlimited time off policy? Hmm not entirely sure. I've seen unlimited not work out very well for some of my friends as well so I feel like it's more of a reflection on the policy but it's all anecdotal. I think it can work out really well but only if there is a base amount of PTO (so you can get paid out when you quit / end of year) and if they require you to take a certain amount off.
- jrs235 10y ago
  Unlimited time of is nothing more than an accounting trick used by companies. In many jurisdictions accrued PTO belongs to the employee and is a liability to the company. If an employee quits the company in such jurisdictions are on the hook to payout the accrued PTO. Many of these companies don't really like or want their employees to take time off so the PTO just accrues until the employee jumps ship for their next endeavor and the company now has a month or two of salary to payout. Some companies will have a use it or lose it policy where none or only some carries over at years end. This helps limit the liability and amounts employees can accrue but again if the company really doesn't want their employees taking time off and only use this to cover the liability then employees will start calling out the company and it will get a bad name... so that is how and why we now have unlimited (and non accruing PTO). Eliminating a month or two of salary liabilities helps make the balance sheet look better (to investors)...

I, like so many around me in the Bay Area, work at a startup. Sick days are not even something that I can contemplate at an early stage startup.

by smb06 10y ago

I, like so many around me in the Bay Area, work at a startup. Sick days are not even something that I can contemplate at an early stage startup.

eli 10y ago

That's not the only way to run a startup. People should go home if they're sick and rest. That's how you get better and become more productive in the long run, in addition to just being the right thing to do.

BinaryIdiot 10y ago

Yeah the last start-up I worked at we had "unlimited" time off. I took almost a week off when I was sick once. The only time I've ever done that in my life but since it was unlimited time and I felt so awful (even went to the doctor's!) I thought I should finally use my generous benefit. Let's just say a non-critical component I was working on was delayed by me being sick and it was counted against me later on. I noped right the fuck out of there as soon as I could. Always be skeptical of the ones offering "unlimited" time off. Because it's never unlimited, in my experience.

Someone1234 10y ago
Unlimited time off and zero days time off are pretty much the same thing. If they really wanted you to take time off they'd have a minimum, but strangely few "unlimited" companies do, why is that? Most non-unlimited companies give you a set amount that "expire" which essentially encourages you to use them all (which is a GOOD thing). PS - And no doubt there will be an anecdote below about the one company that does have a minimum. My point is that that company is a unicorn, most unlimited companies have no minimum and don't legitimately expect/want you to take a lot of days.
- dawnerd 10y ago
  With unlimited they're not giving you PTO when you leave the company. It's a real nice way to give a finger. If anything the policy should be X many PTO hours but past that it's still unlimited.
- joesmo 10y ago
  Couldn't agree more. I assume that somewhere in such contracts there is a limit similar to how cell phone carriers' "unlimited" plan is always limited or some clause with more generic language doing the same thing. Otherwise what's to stop one from coming in the first day and taking a year off afterwards? Can an employer in an at-will state fire an employee for taking his vacation according to company policy? Or, someone could come in for the first day, then start taking days off. At some point, I'm sure the employer will fire them, but they still have to pay the employee for all those days off. More broadly, my question is this: Since clearly, you cannot have unlimited vacation, what is the actual legal language in contracts at such companies that creates the situation of "unlimited" vacation and what exactly is that situation legally (since it's obviously not unlimited vacation)?
  - emmp 10y ago
    Yup I have "unlimited". It's "recommended" to take at least 2 weeks. Greater than 4 weeks requires executive approval though!
pkaye 10y ago
Do you think this reflects more on this particular employer or unlimited time off policy? I just view the unlimited as equal or greater than industry average days. Most companies give 20 days vacation plus sick in my area so I feel untitled to that much. The rest is just icing on the cake if I get.
- BinaryIdiot 10y ago
  > Do you think this reflects more on this particular employer or unlimited time off policy? Hmm not entirely sure. I've seen unlimited not work out very well for some of my friends as well so I feel like it's more of a reflection on the policy but it's all anecdotal. I think it can work out really well but only if there is a base amount of PTO (so you can get paid out when you quit / end of year) and if they require you to take a certain amount off.
jrs235 10y ago
Unlimited time of is nothing more than an accounting trick used by companies. In many jurisdictions accrued PTO belongs to the employee and is a liability to the company. If an employee quits the company in such jurisdictions are on the hook to payout the accrued PTO. Many of these companies don't really like or want their employees to take time off so the PTO just accrues until the employee jumps ship for their next endeavor and the company now has a month or two of salary to payout. Some companies will have a use it or lose it policy where none or only some carries over at years end. This helps limit the liability and amounts employees can accrue but again if the company really doesn't want their employees taking time off and only use this to cover the liability then employees will start calling out the company and it will get a bad name... so that is how and why we now have unlimited (and non accruing PTO). Eliminating a month or two of salary liabilities helps make the balance sheet look better (to investors)...