7 ms·

Why Americans don't take sick days

45 points by _of 10y ago

dawnerd 10y ago
One of the last companies I worked for I had all of 3 sick days per year. If I used them now what if I get flu later in the year?
- mtmail 10y ago
  Then you either have to use your vacation days or not get paid for any day not in the office.
  - paulddraper 10y ago
    ...that was an easy question.
  - dawnerd 10y ago
    Thats why no one uses sick days though... Companies need to be more willing to keep sick employees away unless they want the entire office getting sick and killing productivity.
- Clubber 10y ago
  >If I used them now what if I get flu later in the year? Walk into the head of HR's office and tell them about it. Make sure you become a close talker and linger around a few minutes. Maybe leave a tissue in the trash can. They probably came up with the policy. If you don't get anywhere, go into your boss's office and their boss' office and do the same. Definitely don't go to your peer's office / cube.
wnevets 10y ago
Probably the same reason they vote against their own interest all the time. We're all convinced we'll be super rich soon.
- monkmartinez 10y ago
  I remember reading something about this... do you have a link?
  - jacobwyke 10y ago
    "temporarily embarrassed millionaires" — http://www.temporarilyembarrassedmillionaires.org/ http://www.temporarilyembarrassedmillionaires.org/
  - WalterSear 10y ago
    http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/328134-socialism-never-took-root-in-america-because-the-poor-see http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/328134-socialism-never-took-...
  - positr0n 10y ago
    It's a common trope usually referring to poor/middle class people that vote Republican because they believe they will be well-off one day and benefit from lower taxes and less welfare. It comes from a quote attributed to John Steinbeck: Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
  - charlieegan3 10y ago
    Reminded an episode of the west wing: > It doesn't matter if most voters don't benefit. They all believe that someday they will. > That's the problem with the American dream. It makes everyone concerned for the day they're gonna be rich http://www.westwingtranscripts.com/search.php?flag=getTranscript&id=48&keyword=american%20dream#thequery http://www.westwingtranscripts.com/search.php?flag=getTransc...
  - lazyant 10y ago
    example: https://www.amazon.com/Whats-Matter-Kansas-Conservatives-America/dp/080507774X https://www.amazon.com/Whats-Matter-Kansas-Conservatives-Ame... "The largely blue collar citizens of Kansas can be counted upon to be a "red" state in any election, voting solidly Republican and possessing a deep animosity toward the left. This, according to author Thomas Frank, is a pretty self-defeating phenomenon, given that the policies of the Republican Party benefit the wealthy and powerful at the great expense of the average worker."
wlesieutre 10y ago
I get five sick days a year. Toward the end of last winter I got sick several times and used four of them. So for the rest of the year, say my insomnia shows up and I've been awake since 8 AM the previous day, I go to work anyway. I get maybe two hours of work done all day, but I sit at my desk and that's apparently what's important. That's only happened once this year, but it was Monday this week so it's fresh in my mind. It's stupid. But I've got one sick day left and I might need it worse come flu season. There are plenty of things I like about my job, but our time off policy is not among them... In the tech industry I'm guessing this is less common because it's not easy to hire good programmers. In other industries, I doubt it's an unusual experience.
- _cal 10y ago
  I work in tech, and in almost all of my engineering jobs I've had, if someone is sick they just work from home.
  - riboflava 10y ago
    "Work", yup, I see this too. To fully pull it off though you still need to be somewhat responsive to emails / IMs for the 'normal business hours'. Sometimes it's worth burning a PTO day to just go back to sleep, sick or not, and really start the day around 3pm without thinking about work at all until the next day's morning.
    - nunez 10y ago
      I wouldn't work if I used PTO; makes no sense. I'd rather arrange a shifted schedule for the day
- jgeerts 10y ago
  > I sit at my desk and that's apparently what's important. After everything it indeed sometimes feels like it comes down to this. They want to see you physically sitting at your desk for at least 8 full hours, that's the only 'measurement' in productivity that most companies seem to care about.
alwaysdoit 10y ago
Please stay home if you're sick. The productivity loss due to you not coming in < the productivity loss due to you coming in and infecting your coworkers.
- astrodust 10y ago
  This is how it should be, but with some employers aggressively punishing people for being sick (e.g. docking pay, forcing make-up time, outright firing people for "poor performance") there's no incentive for people to look out for anyone else. Instead come in, muddle along, and infect everyone.
- zeveb 10y ago
  If my employer won't give me sick days, I'm not going to burn vacation unless I really, really don't feel like coming in.
  - hkmurakami 10y ago
    Yup, employers often fail to see how they are incentivizing contagion in their offices by having the sick day policies they do.
- detaro 10y ago
  Productivity loss is a bad angle to argue this. Why should an individual worker put productivity of the company first if the company will penalize him for doing so?
  - eli 10y ago
    Because in this case it aligns with their interests of not having to work while sick.
    - detaro 10y ago
      That's IMHO not a reason to value the argument of improved productivity any higher. I'm not saying that you shouldn't consider staying home, or that you shouldn't consider your coworkers health while making the decision. If company productivity is critical to you (keep company afloat) it's in your interest to value it highly as well, if not it is one of the weakest arguments.
smb06 10y ago
I, like so many around me in the Bay Area, work at a startup. Sick days are not even something that I can contemplate at an early stage startup.
- eli 10y ago
  That's not the only way to run a startup. People should go home if they're sick and rest. That's how you get better and become more productive in the long run, in addition to just being the right thing to do.
- BinaryIdiot 10y ago
  Yeah the last start-up I worked at we had "unlimited" time off. I took almost a week off when I was sick once. The only time I've ever done that in my life but since it was unlimited time and I felt so awful (even went to the doctor's!) I thought I should finally use my generous benefit. Let's just say a non-critical component I was working on was delayed by me being sick and it was counted against me later on. I noped right the fuck out of there as soon as I could. Always be skeptical of the ones offering "unlimited" time off. Because it's never unlimited, in my experience.
  - Someone1234 10y ago
    Unlimited time off and zero days time off are pretty much the same thing. If they really wanted you to take time off they'd have a minimum, but strangely few "unlimited" companies do, why is that? Most non-unlimited companies give you a set amount that "expire" which essentially encourages you to use them all (which is a GOOD thing). PS - And no doubt there will be an anecdote below about the one company that does have a minimum. My point is that that company is a unicorn, most unlimited companies have no minimum and don't legitimately expect/want you to take a lot of days.
    - dawnerd 10y ago
      With unlimited they're not giving you PTO when you leave the company. It's a real nice way to give a finger. If anything the policy should be X many PTO hours but past that it's still unlimited.
rayiner 10y ago
Is it common for programmers to have a fixed number of "sick days?" The only time I ever had to keep track of sick days and vacation days is when I worked for the government and it was awful. There is no reason to do that to white collar workers.
- sidlls 10y ago
  There are two common schemes: one that combines vacation and sick leave in "Paid Time Off" ("PTO") banks and one that tracks them separately. It is almost uniformly the case for programmers outside the Bay Area to work for companies with one or the other (usually the former). This is one reason why I think it's funny when developers mistakenly think of their managers and higher as "colleagues." Software developers are much closer to blue collar workers than white collar workers from a social status perspective.
  - paulddraper 10y ago
    "White collar" doesn't have to do with management or social status. White collar work is in an office setting. Blue collar work is manual labor. Telemarketers are white collar. Construction managers are blue collar.
    - bryanlarsen 10y ago
      White collar means a job that traditionally would require a suit and tie. Blue collar means a uniform.
      - paulddraper 10y ago
        That is the origin of the word. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collar_workers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collar_workers But so few jobs require suit and tie compared to 60 years ago, that the definition has shifted to "office job" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White-collar_worker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White-collar_worker.
paulddraper 10y ago
Sick days are a terrible concept. If I have a mild headache, can I take a sick day? What if it's November and I haven't used any sick days? What if I'm nauseous when I wake up, but I'm fine by lunch? Can I use sick days for psychological reasons? What if someone sees me in public and thinks I don't look sick? Should I follow these rules, or can I fake a phone cough as well as my co-workers? Just give me an allotment for paid time off (and maybe unpaid time off), and let me run my life/work balance.
- flubert 10y ago
  >If I have a mild headache, can I take a sick day? Yes. >What if I'm nauseous when I wake up, but I'm fine by lunch? Take half a sick day? >Can I use sick days for psychological reasons? Yes. >What if someone sees me in public and thinks I don't look sick? When taking a sick day, limit your public outings to the doctor / pharmacist.
  - paulddraper 10y ago
    A day at the beach is good for my claustrophobia.
    - 6nf 10y ago
      We call those 'personal days' and they count as sick days.
- riboflava 10y ago
  Giving specific benefits often ends up going along with requiring specific proof of need for the benefit. I had classes in college where attendance was part of the grade. Additionally if you had to miss a class due to being sick, you had to produce a doctor's note. The attitude for myself and others was largely fuck that, I'm not going to the doctor for a cold or flu. I'll just come in and infect everyone, hopefully the administration/teacher who introduced such a policy...
JoelBennett 10y ago
Pretty easy to sum this up: people don't take sick days because: - They aren't given that many - Medical expenses are HUGE - There's societal pressure to not take them - It's easier to fall behind in work (and get fired if you do) I really should count my blessings - I rarely feel sick enough to take a sick day - maybe at most once a year. I understand that other people aren't like that, and I'm fine with that. As long as everyone is doing their part, and we're all pulling together, it's all good.
oconnor0 10y ago
Because I don't get any sick days and never have?
fma 10y ago
My company has unlimited sick days. I've used none in my 2.5 years here. It's not that I don't get sick, but somehow I get sick while on vacation. Yep that's fun. I see the doctor for checkups, I had many appointments to accompany my wife to the OBGYN, and appointments for my new baby...I don't take time off for those. If I'm feeling under the weather I stay home and do a bit of work. If I had actual sick days I would be more inclined to take an entire day off, especially if towards the end of the year. When I worked for the govt I took mental days...day where it would be pointless to come to the office because I'm not motivated and would be unproductive. After a day off I'm good to go. Counted that as sick.
- mattmanser 10y ago
  In much of the EU, if you get sick on holiday, you can claim your holiday back: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/6190826/Claim-back-holidays-lost-to-sickness-says-European-Court-of-Justice.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/6190826/...
  - magiconair 10y ago
    Yes, because your holidays are for recreation not for recuperation. When you're sick, you're sick. Go home, get rest, forget about work. Makes happier and more productive employees since you treat them as human beings.
WallowingB_36 10y ago
In my case, the employer had a great "take what you need" policy when it came to sick leave. Vacation hours were earned, up to 6 weeks worth of hours a year, but you could bank up to 8 weeks of hours. The only catch was "be responsible". As a father with two little kids who are always getting sick, this was great. It was useable for their visits for shots and times when my wife could not change her schedule easily (she does by appointment, in-home yoga/physical therapy, can be tricky to bail on a person that needs your help on short notice). I still had the ability to stay home if I got sick at some point (which happens way more with kids). This was the way for years. Until this year. Now it's a hard 5 weeks of combined sick and vacation time. With plans already set up for the year, plane tickets booked, for weddings, vacation, etc. I'd burned it all up by June. So here I am with 3 days of vacation/sick leave left. If I get sick now I'm going to work. That, coupled with losing a non-trivial amount of vacation hours has caused people to leave here in droves (with other mgmt issues coming in after the sick/vacay policy change and doubling the insurance premium). I don't really know what they were thinking as every other high tech company around us has a much better sick/vacation policy, better insurance. They can afford it, according to HR/accounting folks I talked to at happy hours. They're just making the numbers look better for their own benefit. So TL;DR (and having read this article, far too frequently) the real answer management screws us out of it.
bluedino 10y ago
I don't have sick days, they just come out of our vacation days. Management thinks if you give people "sick days" they will say they are sick when they aren't just to get a day off. I take sick days when I hurt my back and can't get out of bed but end up with my phone and iPad in bed taking emails and attending meetings/calls
- magiconair 10y ago
  Not trusting your employees is usually a bad sign.
mcv 10y ago
I find the concept of limited sick days very odd. How can you possibly plan your sickness? When you're sick, you're sick, and shouldn't be going to work. Especially not when you've got something infectious that might make your co-workers sick too. I had no idea that my country (Netherland) had the most generous law in this regard. The Dutch system sounds fairly obvious to me, and it works very well. Healthy, happy workers don't stay at home sick. Of course there are people who do abuse the system, but when people call in sick unusually often, it's generally a sign of a deeper problem, like hating their job or not being motivated to do it. And those are problems that need to be solved, not ignored.
Spooky23 10y ago
This is one of the reasons I'm at my job despite the 15-20% salary penalty. 40 vacation days, 25 sick, 5 personal. This year we did a week in June and nearly 3 weeks in October for vacation. :)
- rak00n 10y ago
  40 vacation day is unimaginable in United States.
  - tarpherder 10y ago
    "Sick days" are unimaginable in Europe. Oh gee let's not get pneumonia because I've got not more sick days left after that flu from last week. Ridiculous concept.
  - Spooky23 10y ago
    I live & work in the United States. ;)
BrandoElFollito 10y ago
I get ~40 days of vacation and unlimited sick leave (France). I use all of the vacation because of children but otherwise I would probably take half of them. The fact that I have unlimited sick leave helps to never be sick, actually. I guess that this is some kind of positive psychological feedback.

45 points by _of 10y ago

One of the last companies I worked for I had all of 3 sick days per year. If I used them now what if I get flu later in the year?

mtmail 10y ago
Then you either have to use your vacation days or not get paid for any day not in the office.
- paulddraper 10y ago
  ...that was an easy question.
- dawnerd 10y ago
  Thats why no one uses sick days though... Companies need to be more willing to keep sick employees away unless they want the entire office getting sick and killing productivity.
Clubber 10y ago
>If I used them now what if I get flu later in the year? Walk into the head of HR's office and tell them about it. Make sure you become a close talker and linger around a few minutes. Maybe leave a tissue in the trash can. They probably came up with the policy. If you don't get anywhere, go into your boss's office and their boss' office and do the same. Definitely don't go to your peer's office / cube.

wnevets 10y ago

Probably the same reason they vote against their own interest all the time. We're all convinced we'll be super rich soon.

monkmartinez 10y ago
I remember reading something about this... do you have a link?
- jacobwyke 10y ago
  "temporarily embarrassed millionaires" — http://www.temporarilyembarrassedmillionaires.org/ http://www.temporarilyembarrassedmillionaires.org/
- WalterSear 10y ago
  http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/328134-socialism-never-took-root-in-america-because-the-poor-see http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/328134-socialism-never-took-...
- positr0n 10y ago
  It's a common trope usually referring to poor/middle class people that vote Republican because they believe they will be well-off one day and benefit from lower taxes and less welfare. It comes from a quote attributed to John Steinbeck: Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
- charlieegan3 10y ago
  Reminded an episode of the west wing: > It doesn't matter if most voters don't benefit. They all believe that someday they will. > That's the problem with the American dream. It makes everyone concerned for the day they're gonna be rich http://www.westwingtranscripts.com/search.php?flag=getTranscript&id=48&keyword=american%20dream#thequery http://www.westwingtranscripts.com/search.php?flag=getTransc...
- lazyant 10y ago
  example: https://www.amazon.com/Whats-Matter-Kansas-Conservatives-America/dp/080507774X https://www.amazon.com/Whats-Matter-Kansas-Conservatives-Ame... "The largely blue collar citizens of Kansas can be counted upon to be a "red" state in any election, voting solidly Republican and possessing a deep animosity toward the left. This, according to author Thomas Frank, is a pretty self-defeating phenomenon, given that the policies of the Republican Party benefit the wealthy and powerful at the great expense of the average worker."

wlesieutre 10y ago

I get five sick days a year. Toward the end of last winter I got sick several times and used four of them. So for the rest of the year, say my insomnia shows up and I've been awake since 8 AM the previous day, I go to work anyway. I get maybe two hours of work done all day, but I sit at my desk and that's apparently what's important. That's only happened once this year, but it was Monday this week so it's fresh in my mind. It's stupid. But I've got one sick day left and I might need it worse come flu season. There are plenty of things I like about my job, but our time off policy is not among them... In the tech industry I'm guessing this is less common because it's not easy to hire good programmers. In other industries, I doubt it's an unusual experience.

_cal 10y ago
I work in tech, and in almost all of my engineering jobs I've had, if someone is sick they just work from home.
- riboflava 10y ago
  "Work", yup, I see this too. To fully pull it off though you still need to be somewhat responsive to emails / IMs for the 'normal business hours'. Sometimes it's worth burning a PTO day to just go back to sleep, sick or not, and really start the day around 3pm without thinking about work at all until the next day's morning.
  - nunez 10y ago
    I wouldn't work if I used PTO; makes no sense. I'd rather arrange a shifted schedule for the day
jgeerts 10y ago
> I sit at my desk and that's apparently what's important. After everything it indeed sometimes feels like it comes down to this. They want to see you physically sitting at your desk for at least 8 full hours, that's the only 'measurement' in productivity that most companies seem to care about.

alwaysdoit 10y ago

Please stay home if you're sick. The productivity loss due to you not coming in < the productivity loss due to you coming in and infecting your coworkers.

astrodust 10y ago
This is how it should be, but with some employers aggressively punishing people for being sick (e.g. docking pay, forcing make-up time, outright firing people for "poor performance") there's no incentive for people to look out for anyone else. Instead come in, muddle along, and infect everyone.
zeveb 10y ago
If my employer won't give me sick days, I'm not going to burn vacation unless I really, really don't feel like coming in.
- hkmurakami 10y ago
  Yup, employers often fail to see how they are incentivizing contagion in their offices by having the sick day policies they do.
detaro 10y ago
Productivity loss is a bad angle to argue this. Why should an individual worker put productivity of the company first if the company will penalize him for doing so?
- eli 10y ago
  Because in this case it aligns with their interests of not having to work while sick.
  - detaro 10y ago
    That's IMHO not a reason to value the argument of improved productivity any higher. I'm not saying that you shouldn't consider staying home, or that you shouldn't consider your coworkers health while making the decision. If company productivity is critical to you (keep company afloat) it's in your interest to value it highly as well, if not it is one of the weakest arguments.

smb06 10y ago

I, like so many around me in the Bay Area, work at a startup. Sick days are not even something that I can contemplate at an early stage startup.

eli 10y ago
That's not the only way to run a startup. People should go home if they're sick and rest. That's how you get better and become more productive in the long run, in addition to just being the right thing to do.
BinaryIdiot 10y ago
Yeah the last start-up I worked at we had "unlimited" time off. I took almost a week off when I was sick once. The only time I've ever done that in my life but since it was unlimited time and I felt so awful (even went to the doctor's!) I thought I should finally use my generous benefit. Let's just say a non-critical component I was working on was delayed by me being sick and it was counted against me later on. I noped right the fuck out of there as soon as I could. Always be skeptical of the ones offering "unlimited" time off. Because it's never unlimited, in my experience.
- Someone1234 10y ago
  Unlimited time off and zero days time off are pretty much the same thing. If they really wanted you to take time off they'd have a minimum, but strangely few "unlimited" companies do, why is that? Most non-unlimited companies give you a set amount that "expire" which essentially encourages you to use them all (which is a GOOD thing). PS - And no doubt there will be an anecdote below about the one company that does have a minimum. My point is that that company is a unicorn, most unlimited companies have no minimum and don't legitimately expect/want you to take a lot of days.
  - dawnerd 10y ago
    With unlimited they're not giving you PTO when you leave the company. It's a real nice way to give a finger. If anything the policy should be X many PTO hours but past that it's still unlimited.

rayiner 10y ago

Is it common for programmers to have a fixed number of "sick days?" The only time I ever had to keep track of sick days and vacation days is when I worked for the government and it was awful. There is no reason to do that to white collar workers.

sidlls 10y ago
There are two common schemes: one that combines vacation and sick leave in "Paid Time Off" ("PTO") banks and one that tracks them separately. It is almost uniformly the case for programmers outside the Bay Area to work for companies with one or the other (usually the former). This is one reason why I think it's funny when developers mistakenly think of their managers and higher as "colleagues." Software developers are much closer to blue collar workers than white collar workers from a social status perspective.
- paulddraper 10y ago
  "White collar" doesn't have to do with management or social status. White collar work is in an office setting. Blue collar work is manual labor. Telemarketers are white collar. Construction managers are blue collar.
  - bryanlarsen 10y ago
    White collar means a job that traditionally would require a suit and tie. Blue collar means a uniform.
    - paulddraper 10y ago
      That is the origin of the word. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collar_workers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collar_workers But so few jobs require suit and tie compared to 60 years ago, that the definition has shifted to "office job" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White-collar_worker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White-collar_worker.

paulddraper 10y ago

Sick days are a terrible concept. If I have a mild headache, can I take a sick day? What if it's November and I haven't used any sick days? What if I'm nauseous when I wake up, but I'm fine by lunch? Can I use sick days for psychological reasons? What if someone sees me in public and thinks I don't look sick? Should I follow these rules, or can I fake a phone cough as well as my co-workers? Just give me an allotment for paid time off (and maybe unpaid time off), and let me run my life/work balance.

flubert 10y ago
>If I have a mild headache, can I take a sick day? Yes. >What if I'm nauseous when I wake up, but I'm fine by lunch? Take half a sick day? >Can I use sick days for psychological reasons? Yes. >What if someone sees me in public and thinks I don't look sick? When taking a sick day, limit your public outings to the doctor / pharmacist.
- paulddraper 10y ago
  A day at the beach is good for my claustrophobia.
  - 6nf 10y ago
    We call those 'personal days' and they count as sick days.
riboflava 10y ago
Giving specific benefits often ends up going along with requiring specific proof of need for the benefit. I had classes in college where attendance was part of the grade. Additionally if you had to miss a class due to being sick, you had to produce a doctor's note. The attitude for myself and others was largely fuck that, I'm not going to the doctor for a cold or flu. I'll just come in and infect everyone, hopefully the administration/teacher who introduced such a policy...

JoelBennett 10y ago

Pretty easy to sum this up: people don't take sick days because: - They aren't given that many - Medical expenses are HUGE - There's societal pressure to not take them - It's easier to fall behind in work (and get fired if you do) I really should count my blessings - I rarely feel sick enough to take a sick day - maybe at most once a year. I understand that other people aren't like that, and I'm fine with that. As long as everyone is doing their part, and we're all pulling together, it's all good.

oconnor0 10y ago

Because I don't get any sick days and never have?

fma 10y ago

My company has unlimited sick days. I've used none in my 2.5 years here. It's not that I don't get sick, but somehow I get sick while on vacation. Yep that's fun. I see the doctor for checkups, I had many appointments to accompany my wife to the OBGYN, and appointments for my new baby...I don't take time off for those. If I'm feeling under the weather I stay home and do a bit of work. If I had actual sick days I would be more inclined to take an entire day off, especially if towards the end of the year. When I worked for the govt I took mental days...day where it would be pointless to come to the office because I'm not motivated and would be unproductive. After a day off I'm good to go. Counted that as sick.

mattmanser 10y ago
In much of the EU, if you get sick on holiday, you can claim your holiday back: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/6190826/Claim-back-holidays-lost-to-sickness-says-European-Court-of-Justice.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/6190826/...
- magiconair 10y ago
  Yes, because your holidays are for recreation not for recuperation. When you're sick, you're sick. Go home, get rest, forget about work. Makes happier and more productive employees since you treat them as human beings.

WallowingB_36 10y ago

In my case, the employer had a great "take what you need" policy when it came to sick leave. Vacation hours were earned, up to 6 weeks worth of hours a year, but you could bank up to 8 weeks of hours. The only catch was "be responsible". As a father with two little kids who are always getting sick, this was great. It was useable for their visits for shots and times when my wife could not change her schedule easily (she does by appointment, in-home yoga/physical therapy, can be tricky to bail on a person that needs your help on short notice). I still had the ability to stay home if I got sick at some point (which happens way more with kids). This was the way for years. Until this year. Now it's a hard 5 weeks of combined sick and vacation time. With plans already set up for the year, plane tickets booked, for weddings, vacation, etc. I'd burned it all up by June. So here I am with 3 days of vacation/sick leave left. If I get sick now I'm going to work. That, coupled with losing a non-trivial amount of vacation hours has caused people to leave here in droves (with other mgmt issues coming in after the sick/vacay policy change and doubling the insurance premium). I don't really know what they were thinking as every other high tech company around us has a much better sick/vacation policy, better insurance. They can afford it, according to HR/accounting folks I talked to at happy hours. They're just making the numbers look better for their own benefit. So TL;DR (and having read this article, far too frequently) the real answer management screws us out of it.

bluedino 10y ago

I don't have sick days, they just come out of our vacation days. Management thinks if you give people "sick days" they will say they are sick when they aren't just to get a day off. I take sick days when I hurt my back and can't get out of bed but end up with my phone and iPad in bed taking emails and attending meetings/calls

magiconair 10y ago
Not trusting your employees is usually a bad sign.

mcv 10y ago

I find the concept of limited sick days very odd. How can you possibly plan your sickness? When you're sick, you're sick, and shouldn't be going to work. Especially not when you've got something infectious that might make your co-workers sick too. I had no idea that my country (Netherland) had the most generous law in this regard. The Dutch system sounds fairly obvious to me, and it works very well. Healthy, happy workers don't stay at home sick. Of course there are people who do abuse the system, but when people call in sick unusually often, it's generally a sign of a deeper problem, like hating their job or not being motivated to do it. And those are problems that need to be solved, not ignored.

Spooky23 10y ago

This is one of the reasons I'm at my job despite the 15-20% salary penalty. 40 vacation days, 25 sick, 5 personal. This year we did a week in June and nearly 3 weeks in October for vacation. :)

rak00n 10y ago
40 vacation day is unimaginable in United States.
- tarpherder 10y ago
  "Sick days" are unimaginable in Europe. Oh gee let's not get pneumonia because I've got not more sick days left after that flu from last week. Ridiculous concept.
- Spooky23 10y ago
  I live & work in the United States. ;)

BrandoElFollito 10y ago

I get ~40 days of vacation and unlimited sick leave (France). I use all of the vacation because of children but otherwise I would probably take half of them. The fact that I have unlimited sick leave helps to never be sick, actually. I guess that this is some kind of positive psychological feedback.