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> my kids will have opportunities I never even dreamed of On another hand your kids are more spoiled with the wealth they were born into and potentially may ha

> my kids will have opportunities I never even dreamed of On another hand your kids are more spoiled with the wealth they were born into and potentially may have lower drive than you have. Hard to tell how they would turn out.

SubiculumCode 10y ago
To be a parent is to worry :)
toyg 10y ago
> your kids are more spoiled with the wealth they were born into An afghan (?) proverb I barely remember went something like this: "The king's father grew up in a tent; he worked hard, built his house, and led the people well. The king lived in a house but remembered the tent he was born in; he worked hard, built his palace, and led the people well. The king's children were born in a palace; they have never seen a tent. They are lazy and will not lead the people at all."
- afghanPower 10y ago
  My dad always used to tell us this. I am so happy you reminded me of this proverb ;)
- acoard 10y ago
  Maybe you're thinking of the famous quote from the Saudi ruler in the 60s: "My grandfather rode a Pony, my father rode a Pony, I drive a Mercedes, my son drives a Land Rover, his son will drive a Land Rover, but his son will ride a camel," https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashid_bin_Saeed_Al_Maktoum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashid_bin_Saeed_Al_Maktoum
- kwhitefoot 10y ago
  The English language version is: Shirt sleeves to shirt sleeves in three generations.
superuser2 10y ago
I dedicate my professional life to chipping away at the "drive" required to lead a decent life, and I suspect most software engineers on this forum do too. Our greatest accomplishments as engineers, scientists, etc. are lowering the cost (measured in time and effort) of the things people need. The really deep ones, like food, energy, and medicine, get all the style points. Transportation counts too IMO, but even advertising and finance contribute to productivity (rather than making things cheaper, they make labor worth more). Economists like to mention that just a few hundred years ago, an average worker's daily wages were only worth ten minutes of artificial light. Now they are worth more than 20,000 hours. This is progress. This is what we do. Fuck the romanticization of poverty and hardship. That our children do not need to pour as much sweat as us into (literally) keeping the lights on is greatest joy of our success. That drive, grit, pain tolerance, and other survival-mode traits are no longer necessary or adaptive is the best thing that could be happening. I suspect I will never be able to fully empathize with people who are sad about this. Different mindsets, I guess. Still, I think it's useful for us to be exposed to the opposing perspectives.
- kwhitefoot 10y ago
  Yes, but. We aren't romanticizing poverty, I'm an engineer too and I'm directly involved in the 20k hours of light part, probably my contribution is a very tiny fraction of it but my children have grown up with not only no desire to work but no real desire to put their all into anything. It's not universal but it does seem more polarized than it was forty years ago when I was the age they are now (20-s). Of course this is all anecdata but it is something that bothers such a large number of people that I feel there must be a kernel of truth in it. I'm not sad they don't have to struggle to stay alive, warm, and well fed (not that I ever had to actually struggle either, merely plan ahead a little more) what saddens me is the lack of desire to create. Of course if we go far enough back you had to be creative just to live at all so perhaps we are seeing not a change but merely the revealing of what was always there.
  - sanderjd 10y ago
    Whenever I start to think this way, I remind myself that "a large number" of adults have been lamenting the same exact deterioration of the youth for hundreds of years, but somehow we keep building, inventing, and progressing.

SubiculumCode 10y ago

To be a parent is to worry :)

toyg 10y ago

> your kids are more spoiled with the wealth they were born into An afghan (?) proverb I barely remember went something like this: "The king's father grew up in a tent; he worked hard, built his house, and led the people well. The king lived in a house but remembered the tent he was born in; he worked hard, built his palace, and led the people well. The king's children were born in a palace; they have never seen a tent. They are lazy and will not lead the people at all."

afghanPower 10y ago
My dad always used to tell us this. I am so happy you reminded me of this proverb ;)
acoard 10y ago
Maybe you're thinking of the famous quote from the Saudi ruler in the 60s: "My grandfather rode a Pony, my father rode a Pony, I drive a Mercedes, my son drives a Land Rover, his son will drive a Land Rover, but his son will ride a camel," https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashid_bin_Saeed_Al_Maktoum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashid_bin_Saeed_Al_Maktoum
kwhitefoot 10y ago
The English language version is: Shirt sleeves to shirt sleeves in three generations.

superuser2 10y ago

I dedicate my professional life to chipping away at the "drive" required to lead a decent life, and I suspect most software engineers on this forum do too. Our greatest accomplishments as engineers, scientists, etc. are lowering the cost (measured in time and effort) of the things people need. The really deep ones, like food, energy, and medicine, get all the style points. Transportation counts too IMO, but even advertising and finance contribute to productivity (rather than making things cheaper, they make labor worth more). Economists like to mention that just a few hundred years ago, an average worker's daily wages were only worth ten minutes of artificial light. Now they are worth more than 20,000 hours. This is progress. This is what we do. Fuck the romanticization of poverty and hardship. That our children do not need to pour as much sweat as us into (literally) keeping the lights on is greatest joy of our success. That drive, grit, pain tolerance, and other survival-mode traits are no longer necessary or adaptive is the best thing that could be happening. I suspect I will never be able to fully empathize with people who are sad about this. Different mindsets, I guess. Still, I think it's useful for us to be exposed to the opposing perspectives.

kwhitefoot 10y ago
Yes, but. We aren't romanticizing poverty, I'm an engineer too and I'm directly involved in the 20k hours of light part, probably my contribution is a very tiny fraction of it but my children have grown up with not only no desire to work but no real desire to put their all into anything. It's not universal but it does seem more polarized than it was forty years ago when I was the age they are now (20-s). Of course this is all anecdata but it is something that bothers such a large number of people that I feel there must be a kernel of truth in it. I'm not sad they don't have to struggle to stay alive, warm, and well fed (not that I ever had to actually struggle either, merely plan ahead a little more) what saddens me is the lack of desire to create. Of course if we go far enough back you had to be creative just to live at all so perhaps we are seeing not a change but merely the revealing of what was always there.
- sanderjd 10y ago
  Whenever I start to think this way, I remind myself that "a large number" of adults have been lamenting the same exact deterioration of the youth for hundreds of years, but somehow we keep building, inventing, and progressing.