5 ms·

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmofgf-Y3Mc&t=45 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmofgf-Y3Mc&t=45 This is a promotional video produced by Uber. It clearly sho

by ctz 10y ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmofgf-Y3Mc&t=45 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmofgf-Y3Mc&t=45 This is a promotional video produced by Uber. It clearly shows the vehicle illegally entering a crosswalk containing pedestrians. That's not a great start, and not particularly good advertising.

gthtjtkt 10y ago
I could be wrong, but I don't think that's illegal as long as there's a safe distance between them. Otherwise, it would be practically impossible to make turns in a city...
- alanh 10y ago
  Smiling at the underpinning argument that a law cannot exist if it would be impractical to actually enforce.
  - gthtjtkt 10y ago
    I believe "irrational" is the word you're looking for. If the intersection is wide enough that you can turn while maintaining a safe distance, then what purpose would such a law serve? Why increase congestion for little or no benefit?
    - alanh 10y ago
      Once, at 2:30 AM in Arizona, I executed a legal right-on-red via a rolling stop. The streets were empty, and I endangered no one. This is not a contested fact. But an officer, unidentifiable in the dark some hundred feet behind me, cited me for "not stopping at a red light" due to the fact my vehicle did not come to a complete stop. Arizona has a state law, named after an unfortunate little girl killed by an asshole who blew through a red light, which makes any "red light violation" an automatic 3 points on your license and applies some certain minimum fine. (8 points triggers a suspension.) Now despite the fact that there is an entire world of difference between (A) running a red light into cross traffic and (B) performing a California stop at an empty intersection, when I showed up to contest the ticket, the judge mocked me for my suggestion that, as I had endangered no one and not been reckless, I had not violated the spirit of the law and that the ticket should be dismissed. I had to pay the fine and accept the points. State law. "Irrational" may well be the word I should have used, but it changes nothing. What purpose, indeed, was served by such a strict interpretation of the law?
      - gthtjtkt 10y ago
        "And I say to any creature who may be listening, there can be no justice so long as laws are absolute. Even life itself is an exercise in exceptions." -- Jean-Luc Picard I agree, a law that serves no purpose shouldn't exist (the only purpose that one served was probably political). That's part of the reason why I find it hard to believe there are laws stating you must wait for pedestrians who are on the far side of the road. I searched but couldn't find them... and since such laws would do little or nothing to enhance safety while significantly increasing congestion (which is dangerous in itself), I think it's reasonable to conclude there are none. People are probably interpreting the word 'yield' far too generously.
- secabeen 10y ago
  Nope, it's a violation. In a crosswalk, the pedestrians have the right-of-way, and motorists must wait until they have walked through the area the car wants to turn through to go. Yes, this means that in cities, you often can't turn right until right at the end of the signal, when you can pass behind the pedestrians completing their crossing, but there isn't enough time for any pedestrians to start crossing and claim a right-of-way. I was always taught that from the moment the pedestrian steps off the curb, you cannot turn in front of them. They have the right-of-way.
  - engx 10y ago
    This is just impossible in some cities, especially when pedestrians are crossing a 5 lane road. In LA, if you did this you'd cause significant traffic issues.
  - gthtjtkt 10y ago
    Got a source on that? I can't find any PA laws that support your statements.
random_rr 10y ago
Right turn on red... I'm not sure this is illegal, unless you know the specific intersection disallows right turns on red.
- honkhonkpants 10y ago
  It appeared to be a right turn on green.
dkokelley 10y ago
It looks like they had only just entered the crosswalk. Sure there's a "letter of the law/intent of the law" distinction here, but I don't see this as a particularly egregious action, especially when compared to normal human behavior (human drivers do this often, and with much narrower margins). (If the software was designed not to do this but failed to behave appropriately, then the situation deserves addressing.) Also note Google's cars are explicitly programmed to exceed the speed limit in order to track with a lead car in order to get better info on road conditions ahead. [1] Technically illegal, but this both increases safety and is well within the bounds of normal human driving behavior. [1] http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-28851996 http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-28851996
- SilasX 10y ago
  >It looks like they had only just entered the crosswalk. To me it looks like they were fully inside the intersection before the car began the turn, so it was a violation (if very technical and unenforced). >Sure there's a "letter of the law/intent of the law" distinction here, but I don't see this as a particularly egregious action, especially when compared to normal human behavior (human drivers do this often, and with much narrower margins). Absolutely -- and as a pedestrian, I would prefer drivers punch through if they have sufficient clearance, rather than pointlessly sit there and watch me walk through. But there's a difference between a) "everyone has to do it even though it's not technically allowed", vs b) "hey, let's showcase this as a prime example of our advanced technology in action" I think it was wrong to do it as b), since it looks like some elderly people were cut off.
afterburner 10y ago
Looked ok to me. Are your local regulations regarding right turns and pedestrian zones extra strict? https://youtu.be/pmofgf-Y3Mc?t=47 https://youtu.be/pmofgf-Y3Mc?t=47
driverdan 10y ago
Is that PA law? Crosswalk laws vary by state.

by ctz 10y ago

gthtjtkt 10y ago

I could be wrong, but I don't think that's illegal as long as there's a safe distance between them. Otherwise, it would be practically impossible to make turns in a city...

alanh 10y ago
Smiling at the underpinning argument that a law cannot exist if it would be impractical to actually enforce.
- gthtjtkt 10y ago
  I believe "irrational" is the word you're looking for. If the intersection is wide enough that you can turn while maintaining a safe distance, then what purpose would such a law serve? Why increase congestion for little or no benefit?
  - alanh 10y ago
    Once, at 2:30 AM in Arizona, I executed a legal right-on-red via a rolling stop. The streets were empty, and I endangered no one. This is not a contested fact. But an officer, unidentifiable in the dark some hundred feet behind me, cited me for "not stopping at a red light" due to the fact my vehicle did not come to a complete stop. Arizona has a state law, named after an unfortunate little girl killed by an asshole who blew through a red light, which makes any "red light violation" an automatic 3 points on your license and applies some certain minimum fine. (8 points triggers a suspension.) Now despite the fact that there is an entire world of difference between (A) running a red light into cross traffic and (B) performing a California stop at an empty intersection, when I showed up to contest the ticket, the judge mocked me for my suggestion that, as I had endangered no one and not been reckless, I had not violated the spirit of the law and that the ticket should be dismissed. I had to pay the fine and accept the points. State law. "Irrational" may well be the word I should have used, but it changes nothing. What purpose, indeed, was served by such a strict interpretation of the law?
    - gthtjtkt 10y ago
      "And I say to any creature who may be listening, there can be no justice so long as laws are absolute. Even life itself is an exercise in exceptions." -- Jean-Luc Picard I agree, a law that serves no purpose shouldn't exist (the only purpose that one served was probably political). That's part of the reason why I find it hard to believe there are laws stating you must wait for pedestrians who are on the far side of the road. I searched but couldn't find them... and since such laws would do little or nothing to enhance safety while significantly increasing congestion (which is dangerous in itself), I think it's reasonable to conclude there are none. People are probably interpreting the word 'yield' far too generously.
secabeen 10y ago
Nope, it's a violation. In a crosswalk, the pedestrians have the right-of-way, and motorists must wait until they have walked through the area the car wants to turn through to go. Yes, this means that in cities, you often can't turn right until right at the end of the signal, when you can pass behind the pedestrians completing their crossing, but there isn't enough time for any pedestrians to start crossing and claim a right-of-way. I was always taught that from the moment the pedestrian steps off the curb, you cannot turn in front of them. They have the right-of-way.
- engx 10y ago
  This is just impossible in some cities, especially when pedestrians are crossing a 5 lane road. In LA, if you did this you'd cause significant traffic issues.
- gthtjtkt 10y ago
  Got a source on that? I can't find any PA laws that support your statements.

random_rr 10y ago

Right turn on red... I'm not sure this is illegal, unless you know the specific intersection disallows right turns on red.

honkhonkpants 10y ago
It appeared to be a right turn on green.

dkokelley 10y ago

It looks like they had only just entered the crosswalk. Sure there's a "letter of the law/intent of the law" distinction here, but I don't see this as a particularly egregious action, especially when compared to normal human behavior (human drivers do this often, and with much narrower margins). (If the software was designed not to do this but failed to behave appropriately, then the situation deserves addressing.) Also note Google's cars are explicitly programmed to exceed the speed limit in order to track with a lead car in order to get better info on road conditions ahead. [1] Technically illegal, but this both increases safety and is well within the bounds of normal human driving behavior. [1] http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-28851996 http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-28851996

SilasX 10y ago
>It looks like they had only just entered the crosswalk. To me it looks like they were fully inside the intersection before the car began the turn, so it was a violation (if very technical and unenforced). >Sure there's a "letter of the law/intent of the law" distinction here, but I don't see this as a particularly egregious action, especially when compared to normal human behavior (human drivers do this often, and with much narrower margins). Absolutely -- and as a pedestrian, I would prefer drivers punch through if they have sufficient clearance, rather than pointlessly sit there and watch me walk through. But there's a difference between a) "everyone has to do it even though it's not technically allowed", vs b) "hey, let's showcase this as a prime example of our advanced technology in action" I think it was wrong to do it as b), since it looks like some elderly people were cut off.

afterburner 10y ago

Looked ok to me. Are your local regulations regarding right turns and pedestrian zones extra strict? https://youtu.be/pmofgf-Y3Mc?t=47 https://youtu.be/pmofgf-Y3Mc?t=47

driverdan 10y ago

Is that PA law? Crosswalk laws vary by state.