5 ms·

A counter-anecdote: where I grew up, when you start to fight back you end up in the hospital when the kid's friends show up after dark one day. Violence in retr

by lghh 10y ago

A counter-anecdote: where I grew up, when you start to fight back you end up in the hospital when the kid's friends show up after dark one day. Violence in retribution is not always a great solution.

Nadya 10y ago
It takes a certain amount of street smarts... Throwing some more anecdata on the pile. Where I (primarily) grew up, gangs weren't really a thing and most kids were middle-class and a bit of goody-two shoes. The bullies mostly bullied because of social cliques and it's what media tells kids that "popular kids" do. Find me a Disney high-school show targeted at tweens and teens where the popular/rich kids aren't bullying the nerdy/poor/"the new kid". With kids like that - reacting with violence gets the bullying to stop. It wasn't "witty comebacks" or being ignored like the victim would do on TV. There was actual retaliation to their actions and the cause->effect was dead obvious. They don't want to be hit again, they aren't fighters, so they stopped bullying. As a kid I moved around a lot - so I also grew up in areas where there were actual gangs. They bullied for completely different reasons. If you messed with the wrong clique, you'd have 8-12 people jump you on the way home. If you got bullied, you put up with it. Adults weren't going to help - because even the adults were scared of the gangs. You ignored it and hoped they would find someone else to bully after getting bored of you. If you retaliated with violence it would be almost certain you'd wake up in a hospital, like you said.
- jdmichal 10y ago
  I have zero experience with the latter part of this, but I wonder about mitigation methods based on your relayed experience. If the goal is to get them bored, would "playing along" help? What if you laughed with them at their insults? What if you immediately curled up into a ball at imminent violence -- assuming that that's roughly the position you would end up in anyway? I'm assuming that the control and perceived strife is where the fun is here.
  - Nadya 10y ago
    Again, only speaking from my personal experiences and what I have witnessed. There is no winning move. You have to have enough social sense to accurately "judge" your bully. You could judge wrong. You may make things worse for yourself. When a bully has no problem getting physical (and has more friends than you do to back them up) is is harder to deal with than the "Disney-like bullies" that I mentioned. Best case scenario is a caring adult with enough authority gets involved. Even then, sometimes getting an adult involved makes things worse. Got the other kid(s) in trouble? They might beat your ass to get back at you. >If the goal is to get them bored, would "playing along" help? What if you laughed with them at their insults? Could be seen as taunting them, resulting in a beating. >What if you immediately curled up into a ball at imminent violence Beat you anyways? Might take some of the fun out of beating you until you curl up in a ball, but beating you to a pulp could be its own fun for them. >Just do nothing then? (the advice I gave, and it is also common advice) They may continue to escalate until they get a rise out of you. If it was jeering and teasing before - it might escalate to something physical. My solution was to drop out of school (remove myself from the equation) and go on Independent Study. It is very similar to being home schooled and I didn't have to deal with anyone. If I'm not around to bully/beat I can't be bullied/beaten. This option isn't always open to people, especially parents who refuse to let their kids be "home schooled" (because the stereotype only "dumb children" get home schooled and their child isn't dumb!)
icantdrive55 10y ago
Yea, it depends on where you live. I always seemed to get into a fight the first day of school. I actually hated the days up to the first day of school, but once that fight was finished--everything went smoothly, but looking back I grew up in Mayberry. My nephew goes to a public middle school in Los Angeles. He just had to mention gangs, I couldn't give him any advice. I told him, I would just avoid the bullies in school. If it was my kid, I would home school him. I've never understood bullies. There's a lot of adults who are bullies. Just some mean, unhappy people in the world? It seems like every job I have ever been at has a one male, or female that just needs to cause conflict. They do it subtly, but there's always they one jerk. I hate to admit this, but my father was a bully. He was o.k. to me, but seemed to ride anyone that wasen't just like him.
- kstenerud 10y ago
  Bullies were once a necessary part of a clan. They separated the males who could/would fight from those who couldn't/wouldn't. Your fighting force determined your clan's survival rate. That was only 15,000 years ago.
  - triplesec 10y ago
    interesting idea. Any refs? Of course this doesn't legitimate this behaviour now
    - kstenerud 10y ago
      Look into Joyce F. Benenson's work in evolutionary anthropology. She also has a book out "Warriors and worriers".
Bartweiss 10y ago
Simply put, there's a difference between bullies who hope you won't escalate and bullies who know you can't escalate. Both types exist, often in the same places.
rrauenza 10y ago
I feel like this video is now relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fF-52tcO_Hg It's a documentary[1] about a kid (Johnny) who was harassed and beaten up repeatedly by another kid, Daniel. [1] Ok, it's really a mockumentary ... but really well done. Seems to be influenced by https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_Gz_iTuRMM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_Gz_iTuRMM

by lghh 10y ago

A counter-anecdote: where I grew up, when you start to fight back you end up in the hospital when the kid's friends show up after dark one day. Violence in retribution is not always a great solution.

Nadya 10y ago

It takes a certain amount of street smarts... Throwing some more anecdata on the pile. Where I (primarily) grew up, gangs weren't really a thing and most kids were middle-class and a bit of goody-two shoes. The bullies mostly bullied because of social cliques and it's what media tells kids that "popular kids" do. Find me a Disney high-school show targeted at tweens and teens where the popular/rich kids aren't bullying the nerdy/poor/"the new kid". With kids like that - reacting with violence gets the bullying to stop. It wasn't "witty comebacks" or being ignored like the victim would do on TV. There was actual retaliation to their actions and the cause->effect was dead obvious. They don't want to be hit again, they aren't fighters, so they stopped bullying. As a kid I moved around a lot - so I also grew up in areas where there were actual gangs. They bullied for completely different reasons. If you messed with the wrong clique, you'd have 8-12 people jump you on the way home. If you got bullied, you put up with it. Adults weren't going to help - because even the adults were scared of the gangs. You ignored it and hoped they would find someone else to bully after getting bored of you. If you retaliated with violence it would be almost certain you'd wake up in a hospital, like you said.

jdmichal 10y ago
I have zero experience with the latter part of this, but I wonder about mitigation methods based on your relayed experience. If the goal is to get them bored, would "playing along" help? What if you laughed with them at their insults? What if you immediately curled up into a ball at imminent violence -- assuming that that's roughly the position you would end up in anyway? I'm assuming that the control and perceived strife is where the fun is here.
- Nadya 10y ago
  Again, only speaking from my personal experiences and what I have witnessed. There is no winning move. You have to have enough social sense to accurately "judge" your bully. You could judge wrong. You may make things worse for yourself. When a bully has no problem getting physical (and has more friends than you do to back them up) is is harder to deal with than the "Disney-like bullies" that I mentioned. Best case scenario is a caring adult with enough authority gets involved. Even then, sometimes getting an adult involved makes things worse. Got the other kid(s) in trouble? They might beat your ass to get back at you. >If the goal is to get them bored, would "playing along" help? What if you laughed with them at their insults? Could be seen as taunting them, resulting in a beating. >What if you immediately curled up into a ball at imminent violence Beat you anyways? Might take some of the fun out of beating you until you curl up in a ball, but beating you to a pulp could be its own fun for them. >Just do nothing then? (the advice I gave, and it is also common advice) They may continue to escalate until they get a rise out of you. If it was jeering and teasing before - it might escalate to something physical. My solution was to drop out of school (remove myself from the equation) and go on Independent Study. It is very similar to being home schooled and I didn't have to deal with anyone. If I'm not around to bully/beat I can't be bullied/beaten. This option isn't always open to people, especially parents who refuse to let their kids be "home schooled" (because the stereotype only "dumb children" get home schooled and their child isn't dumb!)

icantdrive55 10y ago

Yea, it depends on where you live. I always seemed to get into a fight the first day of school. I actually hated the days up to the first day of school, but once that fight was finished--everything went smoothly, but looking back I grew up in Mayberry. My nephew goes to a public middle school in Los Angeles. He just had to mention gangs, I couldn't give him any advice. I told him, I would just avoid the bullies in school. If it was my kid, I would home school him. I've never understood bullies. There's a lot of adults who are bullies. Just some mean, unhappy people in the world? It seems like every job I have ever been at has a one male, or female that just needs to cause conflict. They do it subtly, but there's always they one jerk. I hate to admit this, but my father was a bully. He was o.k. to me, but seemed to ride anyone that wasen't just like him.

kstenerud 10y ago
Bullies were once a necessary part of a clan. They separated the males who could/would fight from those who couldn't/wouldn't. Your fighting force determined your clan's survival rate. That was only 15,000 years ago.
- triplesec 10y ago
  interesting idea. Any refs? Of course this doesn't legitimate this behaviour now
  - kstenerud 10y ago
    Look into Joyce F. Benenson's work in evolutionary anthropology. She also has a book out "Warriors and worriers".

Bartweiss 10y ago

Simply put, there's a difference between bullies who hope you won't escalate and bullies who know you can't escalate. Both types exist, often in the same places.

rrauenza 10y ago

I feel like this video is now relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fF-52tcO_Hg It's a documentary[1] about a kid (Johnny) who was harassed and beaten up repeatedly by another kid, Daniel. [1] Ok, it's really a mockumentary ... but really well done. Seems to be influenced by https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_Gz_iTuRMM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_Gz_iTuRMM