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You'd have to be careful not to encourage excessive retaliation. If someone isn't physically capable of overthrowing a bully (or thinks that they aren't) you do

by wybiral 10y ago

You'd have to be careful not to encourage excessive retaliation. If someone isn't physically capable of overthrowing a bully (or thinks that they aren't) you don't want them resorting to weapons when they "snap".

kstenerud 10y ago
You don't need to physically overthrow him. All you have to do is retaliate. Violence brings respect, and since he's only looking for an easy victim anyway, he'll go find someone else to torment.
- wybiral 10y ago
  What I'm saying is that you should be careful when teaching retaliation. A bullied and frightened child might resort to using a weapon. The lines between which types of violence "bring you respect" and which don't might not be clearly established at a young age.
  - kstenerud 10y ago
    And you can worry about someone falling down the stairs and breaking their neck, or catching some disease from open wounds, or the bully is unstable and decides to go on a killing spree. There comes a point where you have to stop picking out unlikely scenarios and using them as a wet blanket.
    - wybiral 10y ago
      Hmm. All I'm saying is that when encouraging violent reactions to things you should do so carefully and explain the difference. But I'd also explain why you shouldn't play on tall staircases or leave serious wounds untreated. Maybe I'd make a terrible parent?
      - kstenerud 10y ago
        African villages have deep pits for various purposes. Kids wander about the village all day long and don't fall in. They don't even need to be told not to fall in. A sheltered child never learns how to take care of himself in the real, hostile world.
        wybiral 10y ago
        Are you suggesting that it's better to not educate a child because in Africa kids just know not to fall into holes? Education isn't "sheltering". Proper education allows children to avoid or resolve hostility without resorting to violence. Not in all situations, but like you said, the other situations are "unlikely scenarios" and peaceful resolution should be preferred otherwise. In most societies we only respect violence as a defensive measure and before it gets to that point you should do what you can do resolve the issue by other means.
        triplesec 10y ago
        There are no such pits in any of the (many) African villages I have visited
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
- orbitur 10y ago
  My personal experience directly contradicts this. We were in the waiting area before seeing the principal about an earlier push+shove in class. He kept going on and on about how after school was over, he was gonna fuck me up, etc, etc. I "snapped," I lost my shit and stood up and started wailing on him. Or I would have liked to, but my first few punches were wild and didn't touch him, and he was up before I knew it and suddenly I was on the ground with part of glasses frames stuck in my face. And then he kicked me a couple times before one of the secretary's pulled him away from me. We were both suspended, and when we got back, he hunted me down and started threatening me with a tree branch. Thankfully I had friends around, and one of them punched him. That stopped him. So fuck your "all you need to do is retaliate". What I needed was several months of fight training??? A body I knew how to control???
  - kstenerud 10y ago
    Yes. You missed. That sucks, but that's life. Nobody said it was going to be fair. Had you stalked him and hit him good, he would have left you alone. But your friend retaliated for you, and he did leave you alone afterwards, so similar result.
    - orbitur 10y ago
      > That sucks, but that's life Okay. OP's advice is no good if it's not applicable to everyone.
    - wybiral 10y ago
      You're just trolling, right?
      - kstenerud 10y ago
        No. This is real life. There are no guarantees, only probabilities. And your probability of actually being killed is low, so you get to choose between self respect and some pain.
speeder 10y ago
Sometimes that IS needed. I had a problem with a particular bully, that was a huge guy, but sucked in a fight, after being defeated multiple times in "fair" fights, he still kept bulling us. So one day, I hit him inside the classroom with a chair. This immediately stopped bullying inside the classroom, but he still kept bullying me elsewhere. So during a field trip one day, when he started bulling me, I punched him in the ear, he grew furious and started to threathen me, so I pulled a switchblade from my pocket, and showed to him, and I was pissed off enough to do that with "honesty" (ie: it wasn't a bluff, I actually was in the mood to stab him if he continued his behaviour). He never bullied me again. (teachers wisely put us away from each other though... and other students didn't even noticed what happened, none of the other students saw I was carrying a blade with me). Eventually he got expelled from the school though, for other stunts he did (like showing for class at 7:00 in the morning already super drunk, and vomiting so much that you could figure what he drunk by looking at it and the smell... it was vodka mixed with Coca-Cola) Also, once a kid kept stealing my sister stuff, and once threw my sister into some construction materials. My sister one day took with her the ball of her mouse (remember those?), and when the kid stole her food, she waited the kid to turn around, and then promptly launched the ball against the back of his neck, knocking him immediately to the ground. Also worked wonders, never the kid bullied my sister again. EDIT: explaining the "bullying us" in my first phrase: in school there was several kids that went to Kung Fu school, they invited me and I joined too. The bully had the bad decision of choosing us (kung fu students) as his target, maybe unaware of that fact, thus he kept attacking us, and kept getting defeated (for example once he picked on the smallest guy of us, the guy weighed so little that he couldn't participate in kung fu competitions because he was 15kg too light for the lightest category... he defeated the bully with a continuous flurry of kicks that left the bully white t-shirt with several muddy shoeprints... the bully actually kept fighting, and another bully had to physically drag him away from the fight, otherwise he would kept advancing and getting kicked until he was seriously hurt)
- dexterdog 10y ago
  I don't know you at all, but from your recount of the situation it sounds like the other guy was not the bully.
- 10y ago
Lawtonfogle 10y ago
What is the problem with equalizing physical differences using a tool if we assume that fighting back is the right course of action? Personally I think physical attacks using the human body is using a deadly weapon.

by wybiral 10y ago

kstenerud 10y ago

You don't need to physically overthrow him. All you have to do is retaliate. Violence brings respect, and since he's only looking for an easy victim anyway, he'll go find someone else to torment.

wybiral 10y ago
What I'm saying is that you should be careful when teaching retaliation. A bullied and frightened child might resort to using a weapon. The lines between which types of violence "bring you respect" and which don't might not be clearly established at a young age.
- kstenerud 10y ago
  And you can worry about someone falling down the stairs and breaking their neck, or catching some disease from open wounds, or the bully is unstable and decides to go on a killing spree. There comes a point where you have to stop picking out unlikely scenarios and using them as a wet blanket.
  - wybiral 10y ago
    Hmm. All I'm saying is that when encouraging violent reactions to things you should do so carefully and explain the difference. But I'd also explain why you shouldn't play on tall staircases or leave serious wounds untreated. Maybe I'd make a terrible parent?
    - kstenerud 10y ago
      African villages have deep pits for various purposes. Kids wander about the village all day long and don't fall in. They don't even need to be told not to fall in. A sheltered child never learns how to take care of himself in the real, hostile world.
      - wybiral 10y ago
        Are you suggesting that it's better to not educate a child because in Africa kids just know not to fall into holes? Education isn't "sheltering". Proper education allows children to avoid or resolve hostility without resorting to violence. Not in all situations, but like you said, the other situations are "unlikely scenarios" and peaceful resolution should be preferred otherwise. In most societies we only respect violence as a defensive measure and before it gets to that point you should do what you can do resolve the issue by other means.
      - triplesec 10y ago
        There are no such pits in any of the (many) African villages I have visited
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
orbitur 10y ago
My personal experience directly contradicts this. We were in the waiting area before seeing the principal about an earlier push+shove in class. He kept going on and on about how after school was over, he was gonna fuck me up, etc, etc. I "snapped," I lost my shit and stood up and started wailing on him. Or I would have liked to, but my first few punches were wild and didn't touch him, and he was up before I knew it and suddenly I was on the ground with part of glasses frames stuck in my face. And then he kicked me a couple times before one of the secretary's pulled him away from me. We were both suspended, and when we got back, he hunted me down and started threatening me with a tree branch. Thankfully I had friends around, and one of them punched him. That stopped him. So fuck your "all you need to do is retaliate". What I needed was several months of fight training??? A body I knew how to control???
- kstenerud 10y ago
  Yes. You missed. That sucks, but that's life. Nobody said it was going to be fair. Had you stalked him and hit him good, he would have left you alone. But your friend retaliated for you, and he did leave you alone afterwards, so similar result.
  - orbitur 10y ago
    > That sucks, but that's life Okay. OP's advice is no good if it's not applicable to everyone.
  - wybiral 10y ago
    You're just trolling, right?
    - kstenerud 10y ago
      No. This is real life. There are no guarantees, only probabilities. And your probability of actually being killed is low, so you get to choose between self respect and some pain.

speeder 10y ago

Sometimes that IS needed. I had a problem with a particular bully, that was a huge guy, but sucked in a fight, after being defeated multiple times in "fair" fights, he still kept bulling us. So one day, I hit him inside the classroom with a chair. This immediately stopped bullying inside the classroom, but he still kept bullying me elsewhere. So during a field trip one day, when he started bulling me, I punched him in the ear, he grew furious and started to threathen me, so I pulled a switchblade from my pocket, and showed to him, and I was pissed off enough to do that with "honesty" (ie: it wasn't a bluff, I actually was in the mood to stab him if he continued his behaviour). He never bullied me again. (teachers wisely put us away from each other though... and other students didn't even noticed what happened, none of the other students saw I was carrying a blade with me). Eventually he got expelled from the school though, for other stunts he did (like showing for class at 7:00 in the morning already super drunk, and vomiting so much that you could figure what he drunk by looking at it and the smell... it was vodka mixed with Coca-Cola) Also, once a kid kept stealing my sister stuff, and once threw my sister into some construction materials. My sister one day took with her the ball of her mouse (remember those?), and when the kid stole her food, she waited the kid to turn around, and then promptly launched the ball against the back of his neck, knocking him immediately to the ground. Also worked wonders, never the kid bullied my sister again. EDIT: explaining the "bullying us" in my first phrase: in school there was several kids that went to Kung Fu school, they invited me and I joined too. The bully had the bad decision of choosing us (kung fu students) as his target, maybe unaware of that fact, thus he kept attacking us, and kept getting defeated (for example once he picked on the smallest guy of us, the guy weighed so little that he couldn't participate in kung fu competitions because he was 15kg too light for the lightest category... he defeated the bully with a continuous flurry of kicks that left the bully white t-shirt with several muddy shoeprints... the bully actually kept fighting, and another bully had to physically drag him away from the fight, otherwise he would kept advancing and getting kicked until he was seriously hurt)

dexterdog 10y ago
I don't know you at all, but from your recount of the situation it sounds like the other guy was not the bully.
10y ago

Lawtonfogle 10y ago

What is the problem with equalizing physical differences using a tool if we assume that fighting back is the right course of action? Personally I think physical attacks using the human body is using a deadly weapon.