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Coffee is indeed complex. Although a great cup can be had with aeropress, drip, pour-over or even a percolator, Espresso is the ultimate form of the beverage. B

Coffee is indeed complex. Although a great cup can be had with aeropress, drip, pour-over or even a percolator, Espresso is the ultimate form of the beverage. By "espresso" I mean the process of forcing 200F water through a properly ground dose of fresh coffee at 9 bar of pressure for about 25 seconds for a doubleshot. Anything that DOESN'T do that may very well make a fine cup of coffee, but it ain't espresso. Making espresso at home, however, continues to be elusive if you have high standards. The nespresso capsule machines do an OK job but the consumable cost is high and you can't do much to customize it. "prosumer" espresso machines can be hit-or-miss (mostly miss). You really have to tweak stuff to get it right and this includes spending more money than you would think on the proper grinder. Some folks resort to hacking their modest Gaggia's into something greater than the sum of its parts by using PID temperature control (http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/almost-done-hacking-this-old-gaggia-t22181.html http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/almost-done-ha...). I have a Gaggia and hope to mod it someday when the wife is on a long work trip. A while back there was an INFAMOUS kickstarter campaign for an attractive, easily hackable PID controlled espresso machine (the ZPM, I think, https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/zpmespresso/pid-controlled-espresso-machine https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/zpmespresso/pid-control...). It never delivered and pissed a lot of people off (see NYT article, http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/03/magazine/zpm-espresso-and-the-rage-of-the-jilted-crowdfunder.html http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/03/magazine/zpm-espresso-and-...). I think there's room in the market for a home espresso machine that outperforms current prosumer models... but it is a difficult project!

barrkel 10y ago
Espresso is generally made with an espresso roast, which is quite a bit more roasting than typical for drip coffee and will burn off many volatile compounds that add a certain amount of complexity. Accept that different coffees are different.
- crispyambulance 10y ago
  Yes, you're right, roasting and bean have a strong influence. Illy and other specialty coffee vendors also blend beans to optimize the espresso outcome.
zaroth 10y ago
> The nespresso capsule machines do an OK job You sound like an expert, but I was very surprised to read this. I bought a Nespresso on Amazon and ended up returning it because the liquid it put out tasted, to me anyway, to be anything but espresso. I tried all the capsules in the sampler pack and disliked all of them quite strongly. I think the biggest turn-off was the fake crema which the machine whipped into existence somehow, but wasn't actually anything like real crema, and ruined the shot in my opinion. There was a front-page post yesterday about the science behind crema, possibly what prompted this post. I encountered my favorite machine in a house I rented for a couple years which had a built-in/plumbed-in Miele CVA6401, and it consistently produced the best single-touch espresso I've had, with no maintenance except descaling. It didn't compare to a very good coffee shop, but for at home espresso, I'm saving up to get one in my kitchen.
- emanuelev 10y ago
  I've got both a Nespresso and a simple manual Gaggia at home. The Nespresso is just accumulating dust. No matter what capsules you buy it doesn't get any closer to the taste of just average coffee (that would be Lavazza Oro) on the Gaggia machine.
- crispyambulance 10y ago
  I think the capsule machines produce a passable (OK) espresso that is consistent, you might have gotten a dud or perhaps you're more sensitive to the differences. The biggest problem with those things (if you even like their coffee/crema) is that capsule costs add up quickly. 2 people x 2 shots per day... by the end of the year you might as well have bought a real machine and that only gets more compelling the longer you use it. 2 years of that and you might as well have bought a top-of-line-prosumer-does-everything-even-grind-and-steam machine. The other issue is the beans. Once roasted, beans really need to be ground and used within 4-6 weeks max (even if they're in a sealed bag). The capsules are sealed (probably in nitrogen), but I don't trust that capsules will ever be at the same starting point as freshly roasted beans ground immediately before extraction. Capsules are a good solution for offices where a real espresso machine would be nightmare of maintenance.
dpflan 10y ago
It sounds like you'd enjoy this Food Biophysics paper on Espresso Crema - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3140933/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3140933/ Related HN Submission with comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12489523 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12489523
scriptproof 10y ago
Here is the thing... https://www.amazon.com/Bialetti-6-Cup-Stovetop-Espresso-Maker/dp/B000CNY6UK/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8 https://www.amazon.com/Bialetti-6-Cup-Stovetop-Espresso-Make... According to comments and my own experience, it make a perfect coffee. But tedious to use.
bch 10y ago
> Espresso is the ultimate form of the beverage. I might have been more apt to at least lean in this direction a few years ago, but now I just disagree. It's like saying that a Ferrari is the ultimate form of an automobile. That's not true if your test is navigating the Rubicon Trail[0]. Very rarely (1 in (maybe) 20) do I have a single origin[1] espresso that isn't disappointing (that's not 1/20 shots, but 1/20 different single origins, from different roasters, from various shops). Enter the pour over[2]. A Chemex[3], Hario V60 dripper[4] or similar and a good Ethiopian or Kenyan makes absolute candy in my cup. The pourover is what introduced me to what a single-origin bean can be; certainly the espresso machines never did them any favours, and I tried every chance I got. Edit: formatting [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubicon_Trail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubicon_Trail [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-origin_coffee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-origin_coffee [2] https://bluebottlecoffee.com/preparation-guides/pour-over https://bluebottlecoffee.com/preparation-guides/pour-over [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemex_Coffeemaker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemex_Coffeemaker [4] http://www.hario.co.uk/coffee/dripper.html http://www.hario.co.uk/coffee/dripper.html
- crispyambulance 10y ago
  All of those make wonderful coffee, and I admit that espresso being "the ultimate form of coffee" is strictly my opinion. That said, espresso is a highly desirable form of coffee for many people. Also, any pro barista will tell you that espresso is NOT actually better with "single-source" beans. It practically requires a blend to get the best flavor profile. Pour-over is probably the best way to taste single-source beans-- if you're interested in distinguishing the "terroir" (to borrow the term from the wine tasters).
  - bch 10y ago
    > Also, any pro barista will tell you that espresso is NOT actually better with a "single-source"... As a former barista (incl competing) and commercial roaster, "coffee bon vivant", I agree with you (it's a rare pleasant surprise that a single origin really works out of a commercial espresso machine, IMO), but there are lots of reputable shops/baristas that will beg to differ. The whole universe/culture is big enough though that after my ~20+ years in so far I'm still open to being surprised. I usually describe espresso coffee (the beans) thusly (crude, but effective(ish)): The opposite of scotch - the highly regarded scotches are single malts, and you don't want to distract from their quality. Blended scotches are concocted to fill voids or weaknesses in in the collection of ingredients that won't stand alone. In espresso, there is no single bean that will provide the body, acid, flavour that makes the best espressos, so you necessarily blend to collect the profiles you want into a single product (the coffee blend you'll use). Some even use beans that (in N. America, at least) we're advertised-to are inferior (robusta[0]), but even these have desirable properties[1], in the right hands. Re: "terroir" -- I think that's a wholly appropriate term to use. I've got friends that work at Stumptown (and other smaller roasters) and I get to sample various batches through the process of zeroing-in on a final roast profile, and try beans from the same estate, but various lots, year-over-year, etc., etc. and sometimes the changes are jarring. It's a very interesting universe, not unlike wine. Edit: clarifying words, formatting [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robusta_coffee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robusta_coffee [1] http://www.coffeegeek.com/opinions/cafestage/02-01-2006 http://www.coffeegeek.com/opinions/cafestage/02-01-2006
aoiao 10y ago
What do coffee shops that sell good espresso use? Why can't you buy one of those?
- WalterSear 10y ago
  You can. They can cost a few thousand dollars.
  - kentosi 10y ago
    Not necessarily. Having recently moved from Sydney to NYC and being disappointed with the coffee here, I decided to take things into my own hands and bought this beauty here: http://www.brevilleusa.com/the-barista-expresstm.html http://www.brevilleusa.com/the-barista-expresstm.html $600USD and about 2 months later I don't regret a single cent.

barrkel 10y ago

Espresso is generally made with an espresso roast, which is quite a bit more roasting than typical for drip coffee and will burn off many volatile compounds that add a certain amount of complexity. Accept that different coffees are different.

crispyambulance 10y ago
Yes, you're right, roasting and bean have a strong influence. Illy and other specialty coffee vendors also blend beans to optimize the espresso outcome.

zaroth 10y ago

> The nespresso capsule machines do an OK job You sound like an expert, but I was very surprised to read this. I bought a Nespresso on Amazon and ended up returning it because the liquid it put out tasted, to me anyway, to be anything but espresso. I tried all the capsules in the sampler pack and disliked all of them quite strongly. I think the biggest turn-off was the fake crema which the machine whipped into existence somehow, but wasn't actually anything like real crema, and ruined the shot in my opinion. There was a front-page post yesterday about the science behind crema, possibly what prompted this post. I encountered my favorite machine in a house I rented for a couple years which had a built-in/plumbed-in Miele CVA6401, and it consistently produced the best single-touch espresso I've had, with no maintenance except descaling. It didn't compare to a very good coffee shop, but for at home espresso, I'm saving up to get one in my kitchen.

emanuelev 10y ago
I've got both a Nespresso and a simple manual Gaggia at home. The Nespresso is just accumulating dust. No matter what capsules you buy it doesn't get any closer to the taste of just average coffee (that would be Lavazza Oro) on the Gaggia machine.
crispyambulance 10y ago
I think the capsule machines produce a passable (OK) espresso that is consistent, you might have gotten a dud or perhaps you're more sensitive to the differences. The biggest problem with those things (if you even like their coffee/crema) is that capsule costs add up quickly. 2 people x 2 shots per day... by the end of the year you might as well have bought a real machine and that only gets more compelling the longer you use it. 2 years of that and you might as well have bought a top-of-line-prosumer-does-everything-even-grind-and-steam machine. The other issue is the beans. Once roasted, beans really need to be ground and used within 4-6 weeks max (even if they're in a sealed bag). The capsules are sealed (probably in nitrogen), but I don't trust that capsules will ever be at the same starting point as freshly roasted beans ground immediately before extraction. Capsules are a good solution for offices where a real espresso machine would be nightmare of maintenance.

dpflan 10y ago

It sounds like you'd enjoy this Food Biophysics paper on Espresso Crema - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3140933/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3140933/ Related HN Submission with comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12489523 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12489523

scriptproof 10y ago

Here is the thing... https://www.amazon.com/Bialetti-6-Cup-Stovetop-Espresso-Maker/dp/B000CNY6UK/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8 https://www.amazon.com/Bialetti-6-Cup-Stovetop-Espresso-Make... According to comments and my own experience, it make a perfect coffee. But tedious to use.

bch 10y ago

> Espresso is the ultimate form of the beverage. I might have been more apt to at least lean in this direction a few years ago, but now I just disagree. It's like saying that a Ferrari is the ultimate form of an automobile. That's not true if your test is navigating the Rubicon Trail[0]. Very rarely (1 in (maybe) 20) do I have a single origin[1] espresso that isn't disappointing (that's not 1/20 shots, but 1/20 different single origins, from different roasters, from various shops). Enter the pour over[2]. A Chemex[3], Hario V60 dripper[4] or similar and a good Ethiopian or Kenyan makes absolute candy in my cup. The pourover is what introduced me to what a single-origin bean can be; certainly the espresso machines never did them any favours, and I tried every chance I got. Edit: formatting [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubicon_Trail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubicon_Trail [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-origin_coffee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-origin_coffee [2] https://bluebottlecoffee.com/preparation-guides/pour-over https://bluebottlecoffee.com/preparation-guides/pour-over [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemex_Coffeemaker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemex_Coffeemaker [4] http://www.hario.co.uk/coffee/dripper.html http://www.hario.co.uk/coffee/dripper.html

crispyambulance 10y ago
All of those make wonderful coffee, and I admit that espresso being "the ultimate form of coffee" is strictly my opinion. That said, espresso is a highly desirable form of coffee for many people. Also, any pro barista will tell you that espresso is NOT actually better with "single-source" beans. It practically requires a blend to get the best flavor profile. Pour-over is probably the best way to taste single-source beans-- if you're interested in distinguishing the "terroir" (to borrow the term from the wine tasters).
- bch 10y ago
  > Also, any pro barista will tell you that espresso is NOT actually better with a "single-source"... As a former barista (incl competing) and commercial roaster, "coffee bon vivant", I agree with you (it's a rare pleasant surprise that a single origin really works out of a commercial espresso machine, IMO), but there are lots of reputable shops/baristas that will beg to differ. The whole universe/culture is big enough though that after my ~20+ years in so far I'm still open to being surprised. I usually describe espresso coffee (the beans) thusly (crude, but effective(ish)): The opposite of scotch - the highly regarded scotches are single malts, and you don't want to distract from their quality. Blended scotches are concocted to fill voids or weaknesses in in the collection of ingredients that won't stand alone. In espresso, there is no single bean that will provide the body, acid, flavour that makes the best espressos, so you necessarily blend to collect the profiles you want into a single product (the coffee blend you'll use). Some even use beans that (in N. America, at least) we're advertised-to are inferior (robusta[0]), but even these have desirable properties[1], in the right hands. Re: "terroir" -- I think that's a wholly appropriate term to use. I've got friends that work at Stumptown (and other smaller roasters) and I get to sample various batches through the process of zeroing-in on a final roast profile, and try beans from the same estate, but various lots, year-over-year, etc., etc. and sometimes the changes are jarring. It's a very interesting universe, not unlike wine. Edit: clarifying words, formatting [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robusta_coffee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robusta_coffee [1] http://www.coffeegeek.com/opinions/cafestage/02-01-2006 http://www.coffeegeek.com/opinions/cafestage/02-01-2006

aoiao 10y ago

What do coffee shops that sell good espresso use? Why can't you buy one of those?

WalterSear 10y ago
You can. They can cost a few thousand dollars.
- kentosi 10y ago
  Not necessarily. Having recently moved from Sydney to NYC and being disappointed with the coffee here, I decided to take things into my own hands and bought this beauty here: http://www.brevilleusa.com/the-barista-expresstm.html http://www.brevilleusa.com/the-barista-expresstm.html $600USD and about 2 months later I don't regret a single cent.