6 ms·

So what are the reasons (in short)? The article is behind a paywall.

by kozak 10y ago

strictnein 10y ago
Click "web" under the article link. Click first link in Google results.
- cordite 10y ago
  Oh wow! I never noticed that!
  - teh_klev 10y ago
    archive.is is also your friend when that doesn't work: http://archive.is/yVKvE http://archive.is/yVKvE
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
rtb 10y ago
> The A380’s size has become its disadvantage as airlines prefer relatively smaller planes such as the Airbus A350 and rival Boeing Co.’s 787 Dreamliner that can fly nonstop to their ultimate destinations, bypassing major hubs such as London Heathrow and Singapore’s Changi Airport. (Range seems odd to me as a factor, as Wikipedia thinks the Dreamliner and the A380 have the same max range.)
- goodcanadian 10y ago
  The range is important because historically, small jets had comparatively short ranges. The pattern used to be to use small jets as feeders to major hubs. The large jets would fly between the major hubs. Now, with small jets having greater range, you can send flights direct bypassing the major hub. There is not enough traffic on the route to warrant a large jet, however, so smaller jets with the same range are preferred.
  - goatforce5 10y ago
    Presumably doing so frees up landing slots at the major hubs and saves on expensive landing fees and operating costs at those larger airports.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- tormeh 10y ago
  The problem with an A380/jumbojet is that it's hard to fill up with passengers. Any jumbo flight has to be between two major end destinations or between two transit points. Since direct flights are replacing flights via transit points the market for A380s is shrinking.
mc32 10y ago
Well, it appears, airlines are getting the range from smaller aircraft (A350, 787) so don't need this double decker and the secondary reason is first gen airliners have lots of kinks which get worked out in later revisions, but this being a low volume model, any excess will dampen the market for new ones. Basically, AB misread the market and the A380 turned out to be a dud.
ChrisBland 10y ago
General Aviation Pilot here - one thing they also leave out is the relaxation on the rules for overwater flight with 2 engines. Prior to the change, it was harder to fly oceanic routes as you had to fly way north to ensure that your nearest airport in case of engine loss was no more than X distance away. With the changes in reliability for engines, they have relaxed that rule which has made 2 engine flights (notable for US => Europe) more profitable as 2 engines flights consume way less fuel than 4 engines flights
- phil21 10y ago
  Doesn't ETOPS vastly predate the A380? I don't think it's really that relevant, other than in a general sense. To put this in context, ETOPS is what killed MD11 development in the 1980's. The A380 was proposed well after etops-120 was widely utilized by airlines, and etops-180 was announced in 1988 with airlines taking advantage of it relatively quickly. These were certainly were not new unexpected market conditions the aircraft faced after production.
  - dorfsmay 10y ago
    Yes. To note also, ETOPS is specific to airplanes with more powerful APU that somehow can help in the case of an engine loss, so they are more like 2.5 engines.
    - frenchman_in_ny 10y ago
      That's not right - the APU doesn't generate thrust.
      - dorfsmay 10y ago
        From a frenchman in YYC! So, you're right, APU cannot deliver trust, but... I just looked into it, I cannot find a definitive answer (without spending hours reading actual legislation, and I don't want to), I think the situation is that some manufacturer use the APU to provide all electrical power in case of single engine operation as a way to leave 100% of power for trust to the one engine that works in order to meet the ETOPS time/distance requirement. In those cases, there are extra regulations around the APU needing to be able to be started at all altitudes etc... In order words, and again if I got that right, you don't need a special APU to be ETOPS, but you can, and if you do there are more constraints on the APU.
ju-st 10y ago
Its simply too expensive compared to the latest gen aircraft (A350/787) because of their lower fuel burn. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_economy_in_aircraft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_economy_in_aircraft

So what are the reasons (in short)? The article is behind a paywall.

by kozak 10y ago

So what are the reasons (in short)? The article is behind a paywall.

strictnein 10y ago

Click "web" under the article link. Click first link in Google results.

cordite 10y ago
Oh wow! I never noticed that!
- teh_klev 10y ago
  archive.is is also your friend when that doesn't work: http://archive.is/yVKvE http://archive.is/yVKvE

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

rtb 10y ago

> The A380’s size has become its disadvantage as airlines prefer relatively smaller planes such as the Airbus A350 and rival Boeing Co.’s 787 Dreamliner that can fly nonstop to their ultimate destinations, bypassing major hubs such as London Heathrow and Singapore’s Changi Airport. (Range seems odd to me as a factor, as Wikipedia thinks the Dreamliner and the A380 have the same max range.)

goodcanadian 10y ago
The range is important because historically, small jets had comparatively short ranges. The pattern used to be to use small jets as feeders to major hubs. The large jets would fly between the major hubs. Now, with small jets having greater range, you can send flights direct bypassing the major hub. There is not enough traffic on the route to warrant a large jet, however, so smaller jets with the same range are preferred.
- goatforce5 10y ago
  Presumably doing so frees up landing slots at the major hubs and saves on expensive landing fees and operating costs at those larger airports.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
tormeh 10y ago
The problem with an A380/jumbojet is that it's hard to fill up with passengers. Any jumbo flight has to be between two major end destinations or between two transit points. Since direct flights are replacing flights via transit points the market for A380s is shrinking.

mc32 10y ago

Well, it appears, airlines are getting the range from smaller aircraft (A350, 787) so don't need this double decker and the secondary reason is first gen airliners have lots of kinks which get worked out in later revisions, but this being a low volume model, any excess will dampen the market for new ones. Basically, AB misread the market and the A380 turned out to be a dud.

ChrisBland 10y ago

General Aviation Pilot here - one thing they also leave out is the relaxation on the rules for overwater flight with 2 engines. Prior to the change, it was harder to fly oceanic routes as you had to fly way north to ensure that your nearest airport in case of engine loss was no more than X distance away. With the changes in reliability for engines, they have relaxed that rule which has made 2 engine flights (notable for US => Europe) more profitable as 2 engines flights consume way less fuel than 4 engines flights

phil21 10y ago
Doesn't ETOPS vastly predate the A380? I don't think it's really that relevant, other than in a general sense. To put this in context, ETOPS is what killed MD11 development in the 1980's. The A380 was proposed well after etops-120 was widely utilized by airlines, and etops-180 was announced in 1988 with airlines taking advantage of it relatively quickly. These were certainly were not new unexpected market conditions the aircraft faced after production.
- dorfsmay 10y ago
  Yes. To note also, ETOPS is specific to airplanes with more powerful APU that somehow can help in the case of an engine loss, so they are more like 2.5 engines.
  - frenchman_in_ny 10y ago
    That's not right - the APU doesn't generate thrust.
    - dorfsmay 10y ago
      From a frenchman in YYC! So, you're right, APU cannot deliver trust, but... I just looked into it, I cannot find a definitive answer (without spending hours reading actual legislation, and I don't want to), I think the situation is that some manufacturer use the APU to provide all electrical power in case of single engine operation as a way to leave 100% of power for trust to the one engine that works in order to meet the ETOPS time/distance requirement. In those cases, there are extra regulations around the APU needing to be able to be started at all altitudes etc... In order words, and again if I got that right, you don't need a special APU to be ETOPS, but you can, and if you do there are more constraints on the APU.

ju-st 10y ago

Its simply too expensive compared to the latest gen aircraft (A350/787) because of their lower fuel burn. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_economy_in_aircraft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_economy_in_aircraft