6 ms·

But Apple is about as bad and invasive in its data practices. You prefer their controlled integrated system, but that doesn't make Apple any better wrt data

But Apple is about as bad and invasive in its data practices. You prefer their controlled integrated system, but that doesn't make Apple any better wrt data snarfing.

macintux 10y ago
Wow. No. Apple makes it a point to do as much data processing as practical on the phone. They don't override your preference to not have your location tracked. They are developing new ground in differential privacy so when they do collect data, it's both useful and not personally identifiable. They don't do underhanded tricks with cookies to circumvent your browser privacy settings. And they're not in the business of selling you to advertisers based on your private data. In short, there's no comparison between Google and Apple.
- cromwellian 10y ago
  Google was first to ship differential privacy in Chrome.
- tanqueray 10y ago
  Does Google not have any interest in differential privacy practices?
  - macintux 10y ago
    That would run counter to their business model. They want to know exactly who you are.
    - tanqueray 10y ago
      They have used it to help anonymize data when collaborating. I think they'd have a lot more trust if they explicitly gave information on their data retention periods.
    - tanqueray 10y ago
      They have used it to help anonymize data when collaborating. I think they'd have a lot more trust if they explicitly gave information on their data retention periods.
AlexandrB 10y ago
Citation needed. I can at least turn off or opt out of Apples data collection. How do I opt out of google reading[1] my email when I communicate to someone who had a Gmail account? Edit: [1] and by reading I mean: reading the contents of my email and forming a profile about me even if I don't use Google services.
- Oletros 10y ago
  The same way you opt-out of Apple or Yahoo! reading your email when you communicate to someone that has iCloud or Yahoo! mail.
  - AlexandrB 10y ago
    You're confused. Google reads all incoming emails to enhance its ad targeting, Apple doesn't [1]. I don't have to opt out of Apple reading my mail because it doesn't read it by default. Still waiting for some facts instead of rhetoric about how "everyone's doing it". [1] https://www.apple.com/privacy/ https://www.apple.com/privacy/ "iAd sticks to the same privacy policy that applies to every other Apple product. It doesn’t get data from Health and HomeKit, Maps, Siri, iMessage, your call history, or any iCloud service like Contacts or Mail, and you can always just opt out altogether."
    - Oletros 10y ago
      Apple,Yahoo!, Google and every mail sever READ all the emails. They are read for anti virus purposes, categorization and for full text search.
      - AlexandrB 10y ago
        You're conflating reading email for the purposes of providing an online email service with reading email for the purposes of building a profile of a user to help target advertising. These are very different. In the former case, if I delete an email, its metadata is gone too (indexing, antivirus, etc.). In the latter case the email provider is literally building a dossier of my personality, preferences, and contacts that persists regardless of how much email I delete (or even if I delete my whole account). To put it another way, Apple reads my email in the trivial sense - so the email itself can be stored, displayed, and searched. Google reads my email in the intimate sense - so it can learn more about me and augment my ad profile. These are not at all the same thing, and confusing the two is dangerous because it lets privacy invasion off the hook as just "providing a service".
triplesec 10y ago
It seems I stand corrected (although none of us has posted references). I'm disappointed about being downvoted for being potentially wrong, though, as that's not what it's for. I'm OK to update my thoughts, athough I have reservations. I looked for what made me think this and it's Apple's pretty dire history of security holes and secret data tracking. For example, from reputable sources: http://www.wired.co.uk/article/apple-spies-on-yosemite-searches http://www.wired.co.uk/article/apple-spies-on-yosemite-searc... https://pando.com/2014/07/28/apple-hit-with-class-action-suit-for-spying-on-iphone-users-here-are-the-court-filings/ https://pando.com/2014/07/28/apple-hit-with-class-action-sui... https://www.wired.com/2015/11/how-to-get-rid-of-the-iphone-map-that-tracks-you/ https://www.wired.com/2015/11/how-to-get-rid-of-the-iphone-m... http://arstechnica.com/apple/2011/04/how-apple-tracks-your-location-without-your-consent-and-why-it-matters/ http://arstechnica.com/apple/2011/04/how-apple-tracks-your-l... http://www.cultofmac.com/132610/it-took-apple-3-years-to-fix-an-itunes-flaw-that-allowed-government-police-to-spy-on-you/ http://www.cultofmac.com/132610/it-took-apple-3-years-to-fix...
- macintux 10y ago
  I appreciate your follow-up, although you're still conflating data tracking under your control vs data tracking under Apple's control. * https://www.wired.com/2015/11/how-to-get-rid-of-the-iphone-map-that-tracks-you/ https://www.wired.com/2015/11/how-to-get-rid-of-the-iphone-m... Wired is pointing out that the phone keeps a history of locations. Not Apple. Again, very different from Google's practices. * http://www.wired.co.uk/article/apple-spies-on-yosemite-searches http://www.wired.co.uk/article/apple-spies-on-yosemite-searc... This one was disappointing, and as the comments indicate, contrary to Apple's customary sensitivity around privacy. Also trivially disabled, again, unlike the location tracking the Register is describing here which cannot be turned off. * https://pando.com/2014/07/28/apple-hit-with-class-action-suit-for-spying-on-iphone-users-here-are-the-court-filings/ https://pando.com/2014/07/28/apple-hit-with-class-action-sui... Sounds more like a lawsuit driving by misinformation. Show me facts, please. * http://arstechnica.com/apple/2011/04/how-apple-tracks-your-location-without-your-consent-and-why-it-matters/ http://arstechnica.com/apple/2011/04/how-apple-tracks-your-l... Again, purely data stored on the phone. * http://www.cultofmac.com/132610/it-took-apple-3-years-to-fix-an-itunes-flaw-that-allowed-government-police-to-spy-on-you/ http://www.cultofmac.com/132610/it-took-apple-3-years-to-fix... Embarrassing, undoubtedly. Again, not Apple data collection.

But Apple is about as bad and invasive in its data practices. You prefer their controlled integrated system, but that doesn't make Apple any better wrt data snarfing.

macintux 10y ago

Wow. No. Apple makes it a point to do as much data processing as practical on the phone. They don't override your preference to not have your location tracked. They are developing new ground in differential privacy so when they do collect data, it's both useful and not personally identifiable. They don't do underhanded tricks with cookies to circumvent your browser privacy settings. And they're not in the business of selling you to advertisers based on your private data. In short, there's no comparison between Google and Apple.

cromwellian 10y ago
Google was first to ship differential privacy in Chrome.
tanqueray 10y ago
Does Google not have any interest in differential privacy practices?
- macintux 10y ago
  That would run counter to their business model. They want to know exactly who you are.
  - tanqueray 10y ago
    They have used it to help anonymize data when collaborating. I think they'd have a lot more trust if they explicitly gave information on their data retention periods.
  - tanqueray 10y ago
    They have used it to help anonymize data when collaborating. I think they'd have a lot more trust if they explicitly gave information on their data retention periods.

AlexandrB 10y ago

Citation needed. I can at least turn off or opt out of Apples data collection. How do I opt out of google reading[1] my email when I communicate to someone who had a Gmail account? Edit: [1] and by reading I mean: reading the contents of my email and forming a profile about me even if I don't use Google services.

Oletros 10y ago
The same way you opt-out of Apple or Yahoo! reading your email when you communicate to someone that has iCloud or Yahoo! mail.
- AlexandrB 10y ago
  You're confused. Google reads all incoming emails to enhance its ad targeting, Apple doesn't [1]. I don't have to opt out of Apple reading my mail because it doesn't read it by default. Still waiting for some facts instead of rhetoric about how "everyone's doing it". [1] https://www.apple.com/privacy/ https://www.apple.com/privacy/ "iAd sticks to the same privacy policy that applies to every other Apple product. It doesn’t get data from Health and HomeKit, Maps, Siri, iMessage, your call history, or any iCloud service like Contacts or Mail, and you can always just opt out altogether."
  - Oletros 10y ago
    Apple,Yahoo!, Google and every mail sever READ all the emails. They are read for anti virus purposes, categorization and for full text search.
    - AlexandrB 10y ago
      You're conflating reading email for the purposes of providing an online email service with reading email for the purposes of building a profile of a user to help target advertising. These are very different. In the former case, if I delete an email, its metadata is gone too (indexing, antivirus, etc.). In the latter case the email provider is literally building a dossier of my personality, preferences, and contacts that persists regardless of how much email I delete (or even if I delete my whole account). To put it another way, Apple reads my email in the trivial sense - so the email itself can be stored, displayed, and searched. Google reads my email in the intimate sense - so it can learn more about me and augment my ad profile. These are not at all the same thing, and confusing the two is dangerous because it lets privacy invasion off the hook as just "providing a service".

triplesec 10y ago

It seems I stand corrected (although none of us has posted references). I'm disappointed about being downvoted for being potentially wrong, though, as that's not what it's for. I'm OK to update my thoughts, athough I have reservations. I looked for what made me think this and it's Apple's pretty dire history of security holes and secret data tracking. For example, from reputable sources: http://www.wired.co.uk/article/apple-spies-on-yosemite-searches http://www.wired.co.uk/article/apple-spies-on-yosemite-searc... https://pando.com/2014/07/28/apple-hit-with-class-action-suit-for-spying-on-iphone-users-here-are-the-court-filings/ https://pando.com/2014/07/28/apple-hit-with-class-action-sui... https://www.wired.com/2015/11/how-to-get-rid-of-the-iphone-map-that-tracks-you/ https://www.wired.com/2015/11/how-to-get-rid-of-the-iphone-m... http://arstechnica.com/apple/2011/04/how-apple-tracks-your-location-without-your-consent-and-why-it-matters/ http://arstechnica.com/apple/2011/04/how-apple-tracks-your-l... http://www.cultofmac.com/132610/it-took-apple-3-years-to-fix-an-itunes-flaw-that-allowed-government-police-to-spy-on-you/ http://www.cultofmac.com/132610/it-took-apple-3-years-to-fix...

macintux 10y ago
I appreciate your follow-up, although you're still conflating data tracking under your control vs data tracking under Apple's control. * https://www.wired.com/2015/11/how-to-get-rid-of-the-iphone-map-that-tracks-you/ https://www.wired.com/2015/11/how-to-get-rid-of-the-iphone-m... Wired is pointing out that the phone keeps a history of locations. Not Apple. Again, very different from Google's practices. * http://www.wired.co.uk/article/apple-spies-on-yosemite-searches http://www.wired.co.uk/article/apple-spies-on-yosemite-searc... This one was disappointing, and as the comments indicate, contrary to Apple's customary sensitivity around privacy. Also trivially disabled, again, unlike the location tracking the Register is describing here which cannot be turned off. * https://pando.com/2014/07/28/apple-hit-with-class-action-suit-for-spying-on-iphone-users-here-are-the-court-filings/ https://pando.com/2014/07/28/apple-hit-with-class-action-sui... Sounds more like a lawsuit driving by misinformation. Show me facts, please. * http://arstechnica.com/apple/2011/04/how-apple-tracks-your-location-without-your-consent-and-why-it-matters/ http://arstechnica.com/apple/2011/04/how-apple-tracks-your-l... Again, purely data stored on the phone. * http://www.cultofmac.com/132610/it-took-apple-3-years-to-fix-an-itunes-flaw-that-allowed-government-police-to-spy-on-you/ http://www.cultofmac.com/132610/it-took-apple-3-years-to-fix... Embarrassing, undoubtedly. Again, not Apple data collection.