5 ms·

Wonder how much of it will succeed in developing nations, where many roads are not well laid out and most importantly not well mannered.. On the flip side, the

Wonder how much of it will succeed in developing nations, where many roads are not well laid out and most importantly not well mannered.. On the flip side, the jobs of drivers are protected until the AI tech improves to cover complex scenarios or the infrastructure improves drastically, both of which can take decades IMO.

rubber_duck 10y ago
>Wonder how much of it will succeed in developing nations, where many roads are not well laid out and most importantly not well mannered Not to mention that the difference between cost of AI equipment (fixed) compared to driver salary (order of magnitude lower) is not even close to developed nations.
- jballanc 10y ago
  There's a cost you're missing in your equation. Automobile accidents are a major cause of death, particularly for individuals in their prime productive years (unlike, say, cigarettes which still typically wait until you're toward the end of your career to kill you). If automated cars can achieve even a fraction of the reduction in automobile deaths that they're predicted too, any developing nation would be stupid not to heavily subsidize widespread deployment of this tech.
  - rubber_duck 10y ago
    Sorry but that's ridiculous, were talking about countries where a decent % of population in rural areas doesn't even have basic sanitary conditions and you are suggesting they should burn cash on AI cars ?
  - et-al 10y ago
    Generally, safety is prioritized less in developing nations. How many developing nations have building codes, workplace laws, environmental regulation comparable to America? And it's not just because we love litigation.
    - sqeaky 10y ago
      I disagree, with your wording at least. Safety is generally prioritized everywhere as a key goal. It is just that if you live in rural India and are part of the 10% of the population that has no access to clean water Cholera is much more likely to kill you than an reckless driver. Focusing on securing water in these regions is prioritizing safety. People are smart to focus on things more likely to kill them.
      - et-al 10y ago
        Yeah, I agree my original wording could have been better. However, I think both of us are in agreement that if you were that person in a developing country, you'd chance drinking potentially infected water over dehydrating. Just as one would work for pennies at a sketchy job site instead of not working and not being able to buy food at the end of the day. And going back to the original discussion, automobile accidents are an abstraction, a probable cause of death, versus something more definite like starvation.
    - jballanc 10y ago
      Most do. These days, most building codes are international and places like Turkey (where I lived up until very recently) now have earthquake codes on par with California due to recent experience with a devastating quake (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_İzmit_earthquake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_İzmit_earthquake). Granted, enforcement may not be on par with the US, but that's more a question of corruption as a general problem, not limited or specific to safety. That said, Turkey has a stupidly high traffic accident death rate. So, yes, as the 19th biggest economy in the world, with 70+ million people, I think heavily subsidizing AI cars would definitely be in the country's best interest (and well within its means...Turkey already has at least one world-famous robotics laboratory). I'd wager economies number 20-50 are probably in similar situations. Yes, truly impoverished nations and regions of nations likely have more important things to worry about, but I'd still wager at least ⅕ the world's population falls into the "can't afford AI cars individually, but would benefit from gov't subsidization of such".
      - 10y ago
ryuker16 10y ago
Labor is so cheap in developing nations that automated anything is rare. It was not uncommon for venues to over staff by 50%-200% even on slow nights becuase labor is so cheap. Ever been to a club where security outnumbers customers 5 to 1 or waiters huddle in a corner on a slow night in big groups of 10? The complex senarios and infrastructure won't take decades. Google's driving car has performed insanely well so far for millions of miles safely.
- semi-extrinsic 10y ago
  In Brazil I took some buses out in the countryside where they had an additional employee to collect the fare from passengers entering, sitting just behind the driver who did nothing while the bus was stopped.
  - et-al 10y ago
    Sometimes it's just about keeping people employed, which gives a person a sense of purpose, and may prevent them from protesting.
    - ryuker16 10y ago
      It's moreso becuase it's 50 cents to $1 an hour or a flat rate fee. Usually the extras also do stuff like security or function as backups labor. Bartender cancels last minutes? At least one of these 10 muscle head security guys likely knows how to mix drinks.
  - Symbiote 10y ago
    A "bus conductor" was very common decades ago in wealthy countries, before being replaced with random ticket inspections or tickets being sold by the driver. I've seen them in most developing countries I've visited. Even on ~15 seat minibuses, where as well as selling tickets the conductor can help with luggage, and keep a lookout for potential passengers.

rubber_duck 10y ago

>Wonder how much of it will succeed in developing nations, where many roads are not well laid out and most importantly not well mannered Not to mention that the difference between cost of AI equipment (fixed) compared to driver salary (order of magnitude lower) is not even close to developed nations.

jballanc 10y ago
There's a cost you're missing in your equation. Automobile accidents are a major cause of death, particularly for individuals in their prime productive years (unlike, say, cigarettes which still typically wait until you're toward the end of your career to kill you). If automated cars can achieve even a fraction of the reduction in automobile deaths that they're predicted too, any developing nation would be stupid not to heavily subsidize widespread deployment of this tech.
- rubber_duck 10y ago
  Sorry but that's ridiculous, were talking about countries where a decent % of population in rural areas doesn't even have basic sanitary conditions and you are suggesting they should burn cash on AI cars ?
- et-al 10y ago
  Generally, safety is prioritized less in developing nations. How many developing nations have building codes, workplace laws, environmental regulation comparable to America? And it's not just because we love litigation.
  - sqeaky 10y ago
    I disagree, with your wording at least. Safety is generally prioritized everywhere as a key goal. It is just that if you live in rural India and are part of the 10% of the population that has no access to clean water Cholera is much more likely to kill you than an reckless driver. Focusing on securing water in these regions is prioritizing safety. People are smart to focus on things more likely to kill them.
    - et-al 10y ago
      Yeah, I agree my original wording could have been better. However, I think both of us are in agreement that if you were that person in a developing country, you'd chance drinking potentially infected water over dehydrating. Just as one would work for pennies at a sketchy job site instead of not working and not being able to buy food at the end of the day. And going back to the original discussion, automobile accidents are an abstraction, a probable cause of death, versus something more definite like starvation.
  - jballanc 10y ago
    Most do. These days, most building codes are international and places like Turkey (where I lived up until very recently) now have earthquake codes on par with California due to recent experience with a devastating quake (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_İzmit_earthquake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_İzmit_earthquake). Granted, enforcement may not be on par with the US, but that's more a question of corruption as a general problem, not limited or specific to safety. That said, Turkey has a stupidly high traffic accident death rate. So, yes, as the 19th biggest economy in the world, with 70+ million people, I think heavily subsidizing AI cars would definitely be in the country's best interest (and well within its means...Turkey already has at least one world-famous robotics laboratory). I'd wager economies number 20-50 are probably in similar situations. Yes, truly impoverished nations and regions of nations likely have more important things to worry about, but I'd still wager at least ⅕ the world's population falls into the "can't afford AI cars individually, but would benefit from gov't subsidization of such".
    - 10y ago

ryuker16 10y ago

Labor is so cheap in developing nations that automated anything is rare. It was not uncommon for venues to over staff by 50%-200% even on slow nights becuase labor is so cheap. Ever been to a club where security outnumbers customers 5 to 1 or waiters huddle in a corner on a slow night in big groups of 10? The complex senarios and infrastructure won't take decades. Google's driving car has performed insanely well so far for millions of miles safely.

semi-extrinsic 10y ago
In Brazil I took some buses out in the countryside where they had an additional employee to collect the fare from passengers entering, sitting just behind the driver who did nothing while the bus was stopped.
- et-al 10y ago
  Sometimes it's just about keeping people employed, which gives a person a sense of purpose, and may prevent them from protesting.
  - ryuker16 10y ago
    It's moreso becuase it's 50 cents to $1 an hour or a flat rate fee. Usually the extras also do stuff like security or function as backups labor. Bartender cancels last minutes? At least one of these 10 muscle head security guys likely knows how to mix drinks.
- Symbiote 10y ago
  A "bus conductor" was very common decades ago in wealthy countries, before being replaced with random ticket inspections or tickets being sold by the driver. I've seen them in most developing countries I've visited. Even on ~15 seat minibuses, where as well as selling tickets the conductor can help with luggage, and keep a lookout for potential passengers.