7 ms·

Announcing September 2016 Updates for .NET Core 1.0

90 points by hanoz 10y ago

chrismorgan 10y ago
I’m sad about the name of applyPatches. If it’s something that should never be needed and is a security risk, it should have a dangerous name and/or value. e.g. make it a string value that needs to be exactly "No, even though I know that this is a bad idea and promotes insecurity; I have read http://example.com/ http://example.com/ and really need this." to turn off patches.
alimbada 10y ago
It's great to see the HN community responding positively to news about .NET/Mono and related tech. I've been working with C#/.NET since 2008 and always felt it's a vastly superior platform to Java in every way. It's a shame it is taking so long for the wider tech community to realise this.
- romanovcode 10y ago
  It's because of Classic ASP stigma attached to it so whenever you tell people you're working with .NET they think about `runat=server` and *.aspx BS. Even now when I tell some people that .NET is very simple, fast and runs on osx/linux they are like "Really!? No way bla bla."
  - efdee 10y ago
    Nitpicking, but "runat=server" and *.aspx are not "Classic ASP". They are ASP.NET Webforms features. "Classic ASP" is what came before ASP.NET
    - c17r 10y ago
      *.aspx is definitely ASP.NET, but Classic ASP also had runat=server silliness.
      - efdee 10y ago
        You are totally right.
- arenaninja 10y ago
  As an outsider (largely worked with PHP/Java codebases, recently started C#/.NET Core), the naming conventions are awful. I'm still not sure what the differences are between: * ASP.NET * .NET MVC * .NET 4.5 * .NET WCF * WPF It's a nebula of names, but I've been ridiculously productive while trying to grasp .NET core. I'm currently trying to make a job to take DB data and dump it on Elasticsearch. It honestly feels like PHP7 with async, it's great
  - efdee 10y ago
    * .NET 4.5 = v4.5 of the .NET framework * ASP.NET = Web subsystem of the .NET framework. * ASP.NET MVC = MVC framework that is part of ASP.NET (not ".NET MVC") * WCF = Communications subsystem of the .NET framework (not ".NET WCF") * WPF = Presentation layer subsystem of the .NET framework
  - nathanaldensr 10y ago
    It basically comes down to named groupings of assemblies. They are really just marketing terms. I consider the .NET Framework to encompass all .NET assemblies shipped by Microsoft in the System and sometimes Microsoft namespaces. The ones you listed are simply groupings that Microsoft considers important enough to create project templates for, have forums dedicated to each, produce examples for, etc.
- samfisher83 10y ago
  The two features I miss from java: 1. The compiler checks for exceptions being thrown and and makes you write a catch. 2. Anonymous inner classes.I prefer even handlers, but would still like this feature. I think c# does a good job of always adding features that make it easier to write code.
  - rusanu 10y ago
    Interesting that you miss checked exceptions. Is one of the most criticized feature of the language, see Does Java need Checked Exceptions? [0]. Also in this discussion between Anders Hejlsberg and Bruce Eckel they are discussing why C# did not adopt them: The Trouble with Checked Exceptions [1]. Also Java theory and practice: The exceptions debate [2] discusses the more on the topic. [0] http://www.mindview.net/Etc/Discussions/CheckedExceptions/ http://www.mindview.net/Etc/Discussions/CheckedExceptions/ [1] http://www.artima.com/intv/handcuffs.html http://www.artima.com/intv/handcuffs.html [2] https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/j-jtp05254/ https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/j-jtp05254/
- marcusarmstrong 10y ago
  I've spent the two halves of my career thus far working on each stack, and I really can't see where those sorts of claims come from, honestly. C# as a language is a win over Java, but from an operational perspective, it's a disaster--IIS is an absolute nightmare. Beyond that, I tend to think that because of the niceties that C# has over Java, that has somewhat held back .NET community adoption of some better practices (specifically immutability). All that said, .NET Core is a huge win on the operational side of things, so it's definitely moving in the right direction.
  - damiencarol 10y ago
    See from Java perspective, it's just 20 years too late.
    - alimbada 10y ago
      I see it as 10 years ahead.
      - dhefiosdo 10y ago
        The fact that your opinion differs from his doesn't give you the moral high ground to smugly down vote him.
        alimbada 10y ago
        What makes you think I was the one that downvoted him? I don't even get to see a downvote button...
  - topbanana 10y ago
    .Net isn't IIS. It's just one web server that can host it. And I'd take IIS over WebSphere any day!
    - pjmlp 10y ago
      Me too. Websphere is such a pain to use, yet it still is everywhere on enterprise projects.
monads 10y ago
It still does not work on Fedora 24 :-(
sremani 10y ago
I am looking F# for CoreCLR status page, https://github.com/Microsoft/visualfsharp/wiki/F%23-for-CoreCLR---Status https://github.com/Microsoft/visualfsharp/wiki/F%23-for-Core... Is F# support ready for Prime Time?
- enricosada 10y ago
  That page is really outdated. It's a good start, lot of things work, lots doesnt. Is for early adopters but it's not bleeding edge anymore i think. Not ready for production F# using .net core sdk from command line works (new, restore, build, run, test, publish) like c#. xplat is ok where .net core is supported, so osx/ubuntu/win/docker. Docs need some improvements, but lots are language agnostic, or c# examples help (docs are open source, if someone want to help). Important wip or not implemented yet feature of compiler/language: - type providers - portablepdb for enable debugging - f# repl The f# libraries in ecosystem are starting to support .net core (netstandard), like FSharp.Compiler.Services (the compiler as library), Suave ( github.com/SuaveIO/Suave-CoreCLR-sample ), Argu, Fable. These are not hello world examples, so it works. Some are in prerelease, but it's expected because it's a new framework/tooling and need testing. There are only few libraries of the f# ecosystem who support .net core, but it's expected because is a bootstrapping issue in lot of cases (i need to wait .net core support for my dependencies add support..) Obv it's possibile to use all others .net libraries who support .net core (netstandard) like the BCL, Kestrel, etc. As editor, vscode has the best support using usual the amazing Ionide plugin for f# (who already give f# support for .net and mono). Intellisense, build, run is ok but not debugging. Using Visual studio, only build/run works (xproj and project.json), but not intellisense or debugging. If you want to chat there are two good f# slack groups - #dotnetcore in fsharp.org slack (other chan too) - #fsharp in fpchat.com
- snuxoll 10y ago
  Not yet, there's been a lot of progress in the past 6 months but unless more people get involved with the port work it's probably going to be another year at least before it's actually usable.

90 points by hanoz 10y ago

I’m sad about the name of applyPatches. If it’s something that should never be needed and is a security risk, it should have a dangerous name and/or value. e.g. make it a string value that needs to be exactly "No, even though I know that this is a bad idea and promotes insecurity; I have read http://example.com/ http://example.com/ and really need this." to turn off patches.

alimbada 10y ago

It's great to see the HN community responding positively to news about .NET/Mono and related tech. I've been working with C#/.NET since 2008 and always felt it's a vastly superior platform to Java in every way. It's a shame it is taking so long for the wider tech community to realise this.

romanovcode 10y ago
It's because of Classic ASP stigma attached to it so whenever you tell people you're working with .NET they think about `runat=server` and *.aspx BS. Even now when I tell some people that .NET is very simple, fast and runs on osx/linux they are like "Really!? No way bla bla."
- efdee 10y ago
  Nitpicking, but "runat=server" and *.aspx are not "Classic ASP". They are ASP.NET Webforms features. "Classic ASP" is what came before ASP.NET
  - c17r 10y ago
    *.aspx is definitely ASP.NET, but Classic ASP also had runat=server silliness.
    - efdee 10y ago
      You are totally right.
arenaninja 10y ago
As an outsider (largely worked with PHP/Java codebases, recently started C#/.NET Core), the naming conventions are awful. I'm still not sure what the differences are between: * ASP.NET * .NET MVC * .NET 4.5 * .NET WCF * WPF It's a nebula of names, but I've been ridiculously productive while trying to grasp .NET core. I'm currently trying to make a job to take DB data and dump it on Elasticsearch. It honestly feels like PHP7 with async, it's great
- efdee 10y ago
  * .NET 4.5 = v4.5 of the .NET framework * ASP.NET = Web subsystem of the .NET framework. * ASP.NET MVC = MVC framework that is part of ASP.NET (not ".NET MVC") * WCF = Communications subsystem of the .NET framework (not ".NET WCF") * WPF = Presentation layer subsystem of the .NET framework
- nathanaldensr 10y ago
  It basically comes down to named groupings of assemblies. They are really just marketing terms. I consider the .NET Framework to encompass all .NET assemblies shipped by Microsoft in the System and sometimes Microsoft namespaces. The ones you listed are simply groupings that Microsoft considers important enough to create project templates for, have forums dedicated to each, produce examples for, etc.
samfisher83 10y ago
The two features I miss from java: 1. The compiler checks for exceptions being thrown and and makes you write a catch. 2. Anonymous inner classes.I prefer even handlers, but would still like this feature. I think c# does a good job of always adding features that make it easier to write code.
- rusanu 10y ago
  Interesting that you miss checked exceptions. Is one of the most criticized feature of the language, see Does Java need Checked Exceptions? [0]. Also in this discussion between Anders Hejlsberg and Bruce Eckel they are discussing why C# did not adopt them: The Trouble with Checked Exceptions [1]. Also Java theory and practice: The exceptions debate [2] discusses the more on the topic. [0] http://www.mindview.net/Etc/Discussions/CheckedExceptions/ http://www.mindview.net/Etc/Discussions/CheckedExceptions/ [1] http://www.artima.com/intv/handcuffs.html http://www.artima.com/intv/handcuffs.html [2] https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/j-jtp05254/ https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/j-jtp05254/
marcusarmstrong 10y ago
I've spent the two halves of my career thus far working on each stack, and I really can't see where those sorts of claims come from, honestly. C# as a language is a win over Java, but from an operational perspective, it's a disaster--IIS is an absolute nightmare. Beyond that, I tend to think that because of the niceties that C# has over Java, that has somewhat held back .NET community adoption of some better practices (specifically immutability). All that said, .NET Core is a huge win on the operational side of things, so it's definitely moving in the right direction.
- damiencarol 10y ago
  See from Java perspective, it's just 20 years too late.
  - alimbada 10y ago
    I see it as 10 years ahead.
    - dhefiosdo 10y ago
      The fact that your opinion differs from his doesn't give you the moral high ground to smugly down vote him.
      - alimbada 10y ago
        What makes you think I was the one that downvoted him? I don't even get to see a downvote button...
- topbanana 10y ago
  .Net isn't IIS. It's just one web server that can host it. And I'd take IIS over WebSphere any day!
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    Me too. Websphere is such a pain to use, yet it still is everywhere on enterprise projects.

monads 10y ago

It still does not work on Fedora 24 :-(

sremani 10y ago

I am looking F# for CoreCLR status page, https://github.com/Microsoft/visualfsharp/wiki/F%23-for-CoreCLR---Status https://github.com/Microsoft/visualfsharp/wiki/F%23-for-Core... Is F# support ready for Prime Time?

enricosada 10y ago
That page is really outdated. It's a good start, lot of things work, lots doesnt. Is for early adopters but it's not bleeding edge anymore i think. Not ready for production F# using .net core sdk from command line works (new, restore, build, run, test, publish) like c#. xplat is ok where .net core is supported, so osx/ubuntu/win/docker. Docs need some improvements, but lots are language agnostic, or c# examples help (docs are open source, if someone want to help). Important wip or not implemented yet feature of compiler/language: - type providers - portablepdb for enable debugging - f# repl The f# libraries in ecosystem are starting to support .net core (netstandard), like FSharp.Compiler.Services (the compiler as library), Suave ( github.com/SuaveIO/Suave-CoreCLR-sample ), Argu, Fable. These are not hello world examples, so it works. Some are in prerelease, but it's expected because it's a new framework/tooling and need testing. There are only few libraries of the f# ecosystem who support .net core, but it's expected because is a bootstrapping issue in lot of cases (i need to wait .net core support for my dependencies add support..) Obv it's possibile to use all others .net libraries who support .net core (netstandard) like the BCL, Kestrel, etc. As editor, vscode has the best support using usual the amazing Ionide plugin for f# (who already give f# support for .net and mono). Intellisense, build, run is ok but not debugging. Using Visual studio, only build/run works (xproj and project.json), but not intellisense or debugging. If you want to chat there are two good f# slack groups - #dotnetcore in fsharp.org slack (other chan too) - #fsharp in fpchat.com
snuxoll 10y ago
Not yet, there's been a lot of progress in the past 6 months but unless more people get involved with the port work it's probably going to be another year at least before it's actually usable.