4 ms·

Tell me about it. I was one of those "precocious" children - I consistently tested years ahead of my peers, did state exams several years early, went to univers

Tell me about it. I was one of those "precocious" children - I consistently tested years ahead of my peers, did state exams several years early, went to university several years younger than my peers. Pressure. So much damn pressure. "Madaxe, don't you think it's disappointing that you didn't come first in all of your exams? Blankety blank is a stupid boy. He shouldn't have beaten you in blank. Are you stupid too?" I never cared about achievement - just about knowing more, understanding why everything was as it was, how everything works - I ended up studying physics, because "because atoms" didn't cut it. All my parents and my schools cared about was achievement. Stop asking questions, study the material we gave you. "But it's wrong." "We know. Doesn't matter. Learn it anyway.". The bit at the end of TFA about emotional intelligence vs academic intelligence is very true - my parents and the boarding schools which raised me put emphasis only on academic achievement. The fact that I was setting fire to things and torturing other kids apparently wasn't too important, and just warranted more beatings, and more pressure. As an adult, I have the emotional intelligence of a cucumber and am conflict avoidant in the extreme. Whatever benefit having a superior intellect might have granted me I am hell-bent upon squandering, as I learned long ago to be ashamed of and resent my intelligence. People hate you if you are academically gifted. It's much easier to pretend to be a dullard.

beefield 10y ago
> People hate you if you are academically gifted. It is somehow simultaneously sad and infuriating that it is not only socially accepted but seemingly ok to be _proud_ to be stupid in mathematics, computers and science. Try that with social intelligence, knowledge of popular culture or your capability/interest in keeping your home tidy, and the _best_ you can hope is a stamp "weirdo" in your forehead.
- yomly 10y ago
  It is certainly strange and frustrating. Being academically talented is generally socially frowned upon. On the contrary, being talented in other dimensions such as sports or music is generally celebrated. In the general sense, there seems to be a confluence of factors at hand - I see it as academically talented people having not having great soft skills, academic achievement being of valued low by society, and a base aversion toward people of academic ability. If you accept PG's explanation of academically intelligent people being deficient in social skills[0], then it follows that it is possible many academically skilled people have also not learned how to gracefully acknowledge their abilities (e.g. they're not modest). From anecdotal personal experience it seems to me this is driven by two interrelated sub factors - the first is a lack of popularity / social value causing overcompensation. School years can be brutal for certain archetypes and this produces damaged egos which can result in certain unpopular behaviour in later life such as immodesty. The other is more tenuous but I have also found that progressing deeper along the thought process for STEM fields is at ends with social interaction - one requires absolute logical and rational thought, the other involves ambiguous emotional and often contradictory thought processes - e.g. in programming you develop a thicker skin toward being objectively wrong but pointing this out to people from other backgrounds can seem obtuse at the best of times, smart/show-offy at the worst of times. On the social sciences side, things are more relatable but only certain types of people enjoy engaging in "intellectual" conversation. This feeds into the last point. Socially it is more glamorous to be a sporting champion than a mathematician. This is potentially due to relatability - it is easier to appreciate a good footballer or tennis player on a primal level than a brilliant mathematician or physicist: the sportsman's abilities are more tangible than the academic's. Its hard to sell academic work, it is by its nature difficult and the people involved do not spend enough time explaining this to people in the field to laypeople. Finally, while we're not really all forced to do sports, we are all forced to do school and study maths, science etc. So for people who are weak in these subjects, it is natural to project the resentment held against the subjects to people associated with them. It probably doesn't helpe that success at school is a decent predictor for later life success - no one likes being reminded of their own inadequacy. It also doesn't help that things which are encouraged by academic activities like correctness and depth can be at ends with social interraction. Use of overly correct punctuation and grammar can seem formal and stuffy to normal people. Appreciation of arts and classical music can seem pretentious or posh. These things can lead to further alienation when passion is expressed in the wrong context. It's worth noting that in East Asian countries where academic ability is more socially recognised, there seems to also be less of a stigma being brilliant or behaviour of people parading their inability at maths. Singapore is probably the closest place you'll get to having a nation that celebrates its great minds but its still a far cry from reaching the heights of popularity celebrities achieve... [0]http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html
- allendoerfer 10y ago
  > It is somehow simultaneously sad and infuriating that it is not only socially accepted but seemingly ok to be _proud_ to be stupid in mathematics, computers and science. I think it is mostly fear. I believe almost everybody can be good at it at a highschool level. I got sucked into computers by my peers, I was told that my father is good at mathematics and that I am, too. My sister on the other hand was told that girls are not good at it. She realized by accident, that she actually was.
spyrosg 10y ago
For what it's worth, you story seems to be the common one for gifted kids. Maybe with less setting things on fire usually. Although resenting your intelligence seems to be doing the exact opposite of you were told to do. The rational thing would be to instead use it for any purpose you see fit, irrespective of anyone's jugement.
- AstralStorm 10y ago
  People are often social rather than strictly egoistically rational.
paulpauper 10y ago
People hate you if you are academically gifted. It's much easier to pretend to be a dullard Maybe it was that way decades ago but not anymore. Unlike earlier decades and generation, with the rise of technology and an economy that rewards STEM jobs, post-2009 or so culture seems to prize intelligence.
- wolfgke 10y ago
  > post-2009 or so culture seems to prize intelligence. At least not in Germany.
  - kriro 10y ago
    I'm not convinced this is true. To give a tongue in cheek example, how many countries have someone "in charge" with a PhD (in a STEM field)?
    - wolfgke 10y ago
      > To give a tongue in cheek example, how many countries have someone "in charge" with a PhD (in a STEM field)? If you are hinting at Angela Merkel: She rather got chancelor despite having a PhD in physics.
- allendoerfer 10y ago
  I think the praised "nerds" you are referring to are not the original nerds. While nerds are celebrated in shows like The Big Bang Theory I think exceptional interests or abilities are mostly not included in the pop-cultural definition anymore. It is mostly about being a virgin, bad at sports and playing video games.
  - nibs 10y ago
    Nerd is mostly == IQ still, I think you mean geek.
    - madaxe_again 10y ago

beefield 10y ago

> People hate you if you are academically gifted. It is somehow simultaneously sad and infuriating that it is not only socially accepted but seemingly ok to be _proud_ to be stupid in mathematics, computers and science. Try that with social intelligence, knowledge of popular culture or your capability/interest in keeping your home tidy, and the _best_ you can hope is a stamp "weirdo" in your forehead.

yomly 10y ago
It is certainly strange and frustrating. Being academically talented is generally socially frowned upon. On the contrary, being talented in other dimensions such as sports or music is generally celebrated. In the general sense, there seems to be a confluence of factors at hand - I see it as academically talented people having not having great soft skills, academic achievement being of valued low by society, and a base aversion toward people of academic ability. If you accept PG's explanation of academically intelligent people being deficient in social skills[0], then it follows that it is possible many academically skilled people have also not learned how to gracefully acknowledge their abilities (e.g. they're not modest). From anecdotal personal experience it seems to me this is driven by two interrelated sub factors - the first is a lack of popularity / social value causing overcompensation. School years can be brutal for certain archetypes and this produces damaged egos which can result in certain unpopular behaviour in later life such as immodesty. The other is more tenuous but I have also found that progressing deeper along the thought process for STEM fields is at ends with social interaction - one requires absolute logical and rational thought, the other involves ambiguous emotional and often contradictory thought processes - e.g. in programming you develop a thicker skin toward being objectively wrong but pointing this out to people from other backgrounds can seem obtuse at the best of times, smart/show-offy at the worst of times. On the social sciences side, things are more relatable but only certain types of people enjoy engaging in "intellectual" conversation. This feeds into the last point. Socially it is more glamorous to be a sporting champion than a mathematician. This is potentially due to relatability - it is easier to appreciate a good footballer or tennis player on a primal level than a brilliant mathematician or physicist: the sportsman's abilities are more tangible than the academic's. Its hard to sell academic work, it is by its nature difficult and the people involved do not spend enough time explaining this to people in the field to laypeople. Finally, while we're not really all forced to do sports, we are all forced to do school and study maths, science etc. So for people who are weak in these subjects, it is natural to project the resentment held against the subjects to people associated with them. It probably doesn't helpe that success at school is a decent predictor for later life success - no one likes being reminded of their own inadequacy. It also doesn't help that things which are encouraged by academic activities like correctness and depth can be at ends with social interraction. Use of overly correct punctuation and grammar can seem formal and stuffy to normal people. Appreciation of arts and classical music can seem pretentious or posh. These things can lead to further alienation when passion is expressed in the wrong context. It's worth noting that in East Asian countries where academic ability is more socially recognised, there seems to also be less of a stigma being brilliant or behaviour of people parading their inability at maths. Singapore is probably the closest place you'll get to having a nation that celebrates its great minds but its still a far cry from reaching the heights of popularity celebrities achieve... [0]http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html
allendoerfer 10y ago
> It is somehow simultaneously sad and infuriating that it is not only socially accepted but seemingly ok to be _proud_ to be stupid in mathematics, computers and science. I think it is mostly fear. I believe almost everybody can be good at it at a highschool level. I got sucked into computers by my peers, I was told that my father is good at mathematics and that I am, too. My sister on the other hand was told that girls are not good at it. She realized by accident, that she actually was.

spyrosg 10y ago

For what it's worth, you story seems to be the common one for gifted kids. Maybe with less setting things on fire usually. Although resenting your intelligence seems to be doing the exact opposite of you were told to do. The rational thing would be to instead use it for any purpose you see fit, irrespective of anyone's jugement.

AstralStorm 10y ago
People are often social rather than strictly egoistically rational.

paulpauper 10y ago

People hate you if you are academically gifted. It's much easier to pretend to be a dullard Maybe it was that way decades ago but not anymore. Unlike earlier decades and generation, with the rise of technology and an economy that rewards STEM jobs, post-2009 or so culture seems to prize intelligence.

wolfgke 10y ago
> post-2009 or so culture seems to prize intelligence. At least not in Germany.
- kriro 10y ago
  I'm not convinced this is true. To give a tongue in cheek example, how many countries have someone "in charge" with a PhD (in a STEM field)?
  - wolfgke 10y ago
    > To give a tongue in cheek example, how many countries have someone "in charge" with a PhD (in a STEM field)? If you are hinting at Angela Merkel: She rather got chancelor despite having a PhD in physics.
allendoerfer 10y ago
I think the praised "nerds" you are referring to are not the original nerds. While nerds are celebrated in shows like The Big Bang Theory I think exceptional interests or abilities are mostly not included in the pop-cultural definition anymore. It is mostly about being a virgin, bad at sports and playing video games.
- nibs 10y ago
  Nerd is mostly == IQ still, I think you mean geek.
  - madaxe_again 10y ago