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Correct me if I'm wrong (it's been a while), but I'd say you never needed to give Apple money to run your code on your device. You just needed to create a free

by almata 10y ago

Correct me if I'm wrong (it's been a while), but I'd say you never needed to give Apple money to run your code on your device. You just needed to create a free developer account. The payment option was to publish apps in the AppStore etc.

gavinpc 10y ago
Do you count the money you spent on the Mac and the iOS device?
- almata 10y ago
  I'm pretty sure stevetrewick wasn't talking about this when he wrote "and realised that just to run hello world I would need to give Apple money and then do those things that you said". If you put it that way, it's impossible to write any code and run it on any device without paying something to some company.
  - stevetrewick 10y ago
    Quite. It's not even a huge amount considering all the other stuff you get along with it (and it was less then) but it still felt weird as I'd just come off a stint of Windows Mobile stuff (shudder) which was pretty much plug in and hack - though of course in that case you still have to give MSFT money for the dev tools. (And the host. And the devices. And the chair to sit on ...)
- stevetrewick 10y ago
  I actually did, that spend was part of an NRE package for an R&D contract and the cost was borne by the client. How it works. If the point you're making is that the additional developer fee is marginal, you are of course quite corrrect.
- simonh 10y ago
  Don't forget the bus ticket to get to the Apple Store to buy them in the first place.
  - 72deluxe 10y ago
    Ha don't forget the cost of the clothes you wore there, and the sustenance you had to eat for energy that day. These things work out expensive!
detaro 10y ago
No, for a long time there were no "free developer accounts". If you wanted to run code on an actual device, you had to pay.
- almata 10y ago
  Thanks guys. Actually I added the "correct me if I'm wrong" part because I suspected this could very well be the case :) You know, we're getting old, we forget the worst parts...
stevetrewick 10y ago
ISTR - and ICBW because it has indeed been a while - that back in the iPhoneOS days the free account got you XCode and the simulator but you needed a paid account to be able to get an actual provisioning profile to load code on a device. But that was like 5 or 6 XCodes and 4 and some S'es iPhones ago. I might well be misremembering.
flohofwoe 10y ago
Free developer accounts are fairly new, and they are an even greater hassle than the paid accounts. Both the device and the Mac need to be online (so impossible to develop on the train with spotty internet), you need to manually unlock every single app in the device settings, there's a very low upper limit of apps (8 or so?) you're allowed to install on your device. If you have an Xcode project with many targets (e.g. sample programs), you need to manually delete apps on the device before you can deploy/debug new ones. Also, for all provisioning scenarios you'll now have to set a 'development team' per target (not just once per project), and this needs to happen, there's no default. This is especially fun with cmake, each time after generating an Xcode project you need to manually go into the Xcode project settings and fix the development team on each target. It's a mess and I don't see why it has to be so complicated for development.
- Twisell 10y ago
  Wait a second, if I got it right you use an external tool to generate Xcode project? So basically the external tool don't properly set the 'development team' variable in the generated Xcode project. May I ask how this is supposed to be Apple's fault if a third party App haven't yet been updated to meet new requirements? Did you update XCode ahead of version supported by your external tool? Coming from scripting languages, I'm starting to learn pure Xcode/Cocoa/Swift workflow with a free account and I really don't relate to problems you are describing (but my target is only macOs for now, so I might miss the deployement hassle you describe I give you that)
  - jm547ster 10y ago
    This used only be an issue with iOS as target needing paid account for development to run apps on hardware
  - flohofwoe 10y ago
    The problem is not the external tool, cmake allows to set all Xcode project attributes just fine. The problem is that there is no automatic default for this one setting, the development team setting has to be manually set. For instance, you also cannot distribute Xcode project files now which simply compile out of the box. You'll have to go into project settings first and set the development team for every single app target. Why the development team is part of the project setting, and not simply an Xcode-wide setting in the preferences is beyond me.

by almata 10y ago

gavinpc 10y ago

Do you count the money you spent on the Mac and the iOS device?

almata 10y ago
I'm pretty sure stevetrewick wasn't talking about this when he wrote "and realised that just to run hello world I would need to give Apple money and then do those things that you said". If you put it that way, it's impossible to write any code and run it on any device without paying something to some company.
- stevetrewick 10y ago
  Quite. It's not even a huge amount considering all the other stuff you get along with it (and it was less then) but it still felt weird as I'd just come off a stint of Windows Mobile stuff (shudder) which was pretty much plug in and hack - though of course in that case you still have to give MSFT money for the dev tools. (And the host. And the devices. And the chair to sit on ...)
stevetrewick 10y ago
I actually did, that spend was part of an NRE package for an R&D contract and the cost was borne by the client. How it works. If the point you're making is that the additional developer fee is marginal, you are of course quite corrrect.
simonh 10y ago
Don't forget the bus ticket to get to the Apple Store to buy them in the first place.
- 72deluxe 10y ago
  Ha don't forget the cost of the clothes you wore there, and the sustenance you had to eat for energy that day. These things work out expensive!

detaro 10y ago

No, for a long time there were no "free developer accounts". If you wanted to run code on an actual device, you had to pay.

almata 10y ago
Thanks guys. Actually I added the "correct me if I'm wrong" part because I suspected this could very well be the case :) You know, we're getting old, we forget the worst parts...

stevetrewick 10y ago

ISTR - and ICBW because it has indeed been a while - that back in the iPhoneOS days the free account got you XCode and the simulator but you needed a paid account to be able to get an actual provisioning profile to load code on a device. But that was like 5 or 6 XCodes and 4 and some S'es iPhones ago. I might well be misremembering.

flohofwoe 10y ago

Free developer accounts are fairly new, and they are an even greater hassle than the paid accounts. Both the device and the Mac need to be online (so impossible to develop on the train with spotty internet), you need to manually unlock every single app in the device settings, there's a very low upper limit of apps (8 or so?) you're allowed to install on your device. If you have an Xcode project with many targets (e.g. sample programs), you need to manually delete apps on the device before you can deploy/debug new ones. Also, for all provisioning scenarios you'll now have to set a 'development team' per target (not just once per project), and this needs to happen, there's no default. This is especially fun with cmake, each time after generating an Xcode project you need to manually go into the Xcode project settings and fix the development team on each target. It's a mess and I don't see why it has to be so complicated for development.

Twisell 10y ago
Wait a second, if I got it right you use an external tool to generate Xcode project? So basically the external tool don't properly set the 'development team' variable in the generated Xcode project. May I ask how this is supposed to be Apple's fault if a third party App haven't yet been updated to meet new requirements? Did you update XCode ahead of version supported by your external tool? Coming from scripting languages, I'm starting to learn pure Xcode/Cocoa/Swift workflow with a free account and I really don't relate to problems you are describing (but my target is only macOs for now, so I might miss the deployement hassle you describe I give you that)
- jm547ster 10y ago
  This used only be an issue with iOS as target needing paid account for development to run apps on hardware
- flohofwoe 10y ago
  The problem is not the external tool, cmake allows to set all Xcode project attributes just fine. The problem is that there is no automatic default for this one setting, the development team setting has to be manually set. For instance, you also cannot distribute Xcode project files now which simply compile out of the box. You'll have to go into project settings first and set the development team for every single app target. Why the development team is part of the project setting, and not simply an Xcode-wide setting in the preferences is beyond me.