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Having deliberately attended the University of Minnesota - Twin Cities rather than an expensive private college, and having paid for it with a combination of sa

Having deliberately attended the University of Minnesota - Twin Cities rather than an expensive private college, and having paid for it with a combination of savings, work, and some loans which I paid off immediately after graduating, I find the idea of loan relief morally reprehensible. Some ideas to improve the "situation on the ground": - reduce the demand for college education - reduce the cost of attending college by providing better material support for students in the form of affordable room and board. - reduce the cost of attending college by providing better public funding (by an order of magnitude) for public universities, state schools, and community colleges for students of proven ability (3rd/4th year students). - fail students who are wasting their money more quickly and aggressively. - make it easier to attend college part-time while working or while raising kids (the idea of intensive four-year study with "Summer Breaks" is absurd in the modern non-agrarian economy) - publish clear metrics on loan-repayment/income prospects after achieving a 4-year degree of <type> from <institution> with <gpa/perf metrics/etc> and use these to gate loans (it is probably rational to take out loans to get a philosophy degree from Harvard, it is probably not rational to take out loans to get a philosophy degree from a random state school in Minnesota. - regulate predatory loan-lending even more aggressively. - offer insurance as part of loans to allow students to hedge against catastrophic life/economic problems. If you are a dead average intellect with dead average work-ethic and ambitions, I see absolutely no reason to support your post-secondary education beyond a year or so. That's throwing damp logs on a dead fire. If you're a dead average intellect with dead average work-ethic and ambitions and you take out tens of thousands of dollars in loans gambling on a future that doesn't exist, I see no reason to treat you any differently than someone who gambles and loses in the market.

x2398dh1 10y ago
I also went to the University of Minnesota...same story. That being said - do you remember those ads on daytime TV for ITT Technical Institute? Well it turns out that they shut that school down last month, for basically being a fraud school. The people who went to that school still owe federal debt. So, it's more complicated than that. Also, by saying, "dead average intellect and dead average work ethic," I think you're building a construct, which doesn't really exist. There are all sorts of reasons why people may have chosen a place like ITTTI - desperation, a family to support, lack of a proper background information on what education can do, lack of information, etc. You and I are lucky. Also, if you were presumably white, let's keep in mind that there is a massive educational gap in the Twin Cities...the largest in the nation. So we can get on our moral John Lockeian high horse about how responsible we are, talk about property rights, etc, but there have been many injustices perpetrated in all sorts of directions in the past, and we have a duty as members of society to improve that society, by whatever means make the most sense. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITT_Technical_Institute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITT_Technical_Institute
- jknoepfler 10y ago
  I think you're absolutely right. I was trying to craft my suggestions in such a way that we discourage fraudulent lending and provide (publicly, not privately) insurance against not being able to pay future education debts because of circumstances outside our control. I want to increase the odds that someone who is willing and able can work their way to where they want to be, and decrease the odds that fortune dictates who wins and who loses. (I vehemently support leveling the funding playing field for primary and secondary public schools in Minnesota and dramatically increasing funding for schools in poorer neighborhoods; also providing credits for child care, preschool, public transportation, and safer streets. What I object to is the idea that someone should go to Macalester College, get a degree in Psychology with a C+ average, then complain because they aren't handed a job with a wage high enough to cover $100k in student loans).

x2398dh1 10y ago

I also went to the University of Minnesota...same story. That being said - do you remember those ads on daytime TV for ITT Technical Institute? Well it turns out that they shut that school down last month, for basically being a fraud school. The people who went to that school still owe federal debt. So, it's more complicated than that. Also, by saying, "dead average intellect and dead average work ethic," I think you're building a construct, which doesn't really exist. There are all sorts of reasons why people may have chosen a place like ITTTI - desperation, a family to support, lack of a proper background information on what education can do, lack of information, etc. You and I are lucky. Also, if you were presumably white, let's keep in mind that there is a massive educational gap in the Twin Cities...the largest in the nation. So we can get on our moral John Lockeian high horse about how responsible we are, talk about property rights, etc, but there have been many injustices perpetrated in all sorts of directions in the past, and we have a duty as members of society to improve that society, by whatever means make the most sense. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITT_Technical_Institute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITT_Technical_Institute

jknoepfler 10y ago
I think you're absolutely right. I was trying to craft my suggestions in such a way that we discourage fraudulent lending and provide (publicly, not privately) insurance against not being able to pay future education debts because of circumstances outside our control. I want to increase the odds that someone who is willing and able can work their way to where they want to be, and decrease the odds that fortune dictates who wins and who loses. (I vehemently support leveling the funding playing field for primary and secondary public schools in Minnesota and dramatically increasing funding for schools in poorer neighborhoods; also providing credits for child care, preschool, public transportation, and safer streets. What I object to is the idea that someone should go to Macalester College, get a degree in Psychology with a C+ average, then complain because they aren't handed a job with a wage high enough to cover $100k in student loans).