6 ms·

You may be right that it's a poor financial decision, but I still hope to one day live in a country where people can pursue education in any subject matter (not

by jonahrd 10y ago

You may be right that it's a poor financial decision, but I still hope to one day live in a country where people can pursue education in any subject matter (not just STEM/other money makers) for the pure purpose of educational fulfillment. That can only be done with a system that helps pay for education instead of letting the market decide which degrees are most valuable in terms of pure capitalistic measures

outside1234 10y ago
Let me know when you find the hole in the ground that is shooting money up into the air that enables us to have luxuries like this. Frankly, we have thousands of other problems, highlighted by basic health care, that we should probably prioritize first.
- white-flame 10y ago
  Note that this is literal in some cases. Norway, being one of the major neo-socialist successes, is also a major oil exporter in the region. They have holes in the ground shooting money up that help enable social programs.
  - friendlygrammar 10y ago
    >neo-socialist This isn't a word and Norway isn't socialist.
    - the_watcher 10y ago
      It has a Wikipedia page, a Wiktionary page, and copious references to it by well known publications.
      - friendlygrammar 10y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neosocialism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neosocialism Clearly the two "well known" publications (the most preeminent Marxist journals) listed in that wikipedia article and the fact that the wikipedia article's definition of neo socialism has absolutely nothing to do with Norways economic model point to the fact that the parent comment definitely didn't make up that word out of thin air. Norway is not socialist, neosocialist, or whatever dumb made up "socialism" you people try to come up with. Also something having a wiki page on any website and being used in a couple of journals does not make something a term/word. It only indicates that someone wants it to be a term/word.
        thatcat 10y ago
        It's interesting that Norway is ranked first on the democracy index, yet most Americans view it's policies as 'socialist'.
        friendlygrammar 10y ago
        The democracy index is bs and most Americans don't even know what the word socialist means. So what is your point because you just stated two completely unrelated facts to what is currently being discussed.
        thatcat 10y ago
        My point was that some core values of democracy (equality and justice) are incorrectly perceived as 'socialist' in current American linguistic usage. If this were corrected, it is much more likely that American's would support a more democratic, Norwegian governance model.
        the_watcher 10y ago
        Disagreeing with Norway being socialist doesn't make neosocialism not a thing. Not wanting something to be a term doesn't stop it from being one.
    - white-flame 10y ago
      You're correct, and I probably should have had big air quotes or whatever around that term. Upthread is strong with hyperbole from an American perspective, and that "neo-" is just to distinguish having strong governmental social programs/services/safety nets (often caricatured as "socialism" from both the right and the left) from old-school destructive actual Socialism.
  - rfrey 10y ago
    Norway does have a higher per capita GDP than the US. (55k vs 52k). But there are many countries with smaller per capita GDPs -- by a much larger difference -- that have solid social programs including free health care and subsidized education. The situation in the US is a political choice, not a consequence of some economic law.
- ant6n 10y ago
  Fascist countries don't need people with critical thinking skills, STEM I'd the only thing that matters.
stephaniepier 10y ago
Well, and really I think it depends on the person rather than the degree. One of my friends majored in theater, which I'm sure many people see as a useless degree. She paid off her loans and bought a house within 3 years of graduating and owns a successful business teaching voice lessons over skype. On other other hand, I know someone who has a PhD in biochemistry who struggled to find a job for years. It's not fair to say "this degree is bad and this one is good." There are so many other factors.
- kamaal 10y ago
  Not exactly. If a person knows where they truly stand its easy to make life choices from there on. Many people I know who did engineering with me in India were stuck waiting for a 'dream job' and have gone no where with their lives. People like us knew we had no special skills in engineering to wait for a magical moment of a 'dream job' to arrive and took whatever came our way. Incrementally we worked towards improving ourselves and now have near dream jobs. The more special you think you are, lesser the options you will have. Because you would got used to thinking of many jobs as work beneath you.
gregatragenet3 10y ago
What if I want to pursue an education in driving luxury cars and sailing yachts? Is that a valid subject matter? And if not, what makes it a less valid subject matter than any other degree that costs money but does not have a clear path to recouping the investment? Who decides?
- fzzzy 10y ago
  I'd like to sign up for "Driving Luxury Cars and Sailing Yachts 101" please. These are vital life skills I require.
  - secabeen 10y ago
    Sure, there's plenty of work to be had in the Super-Yacht Crew industry. Don't expect to be home as much, though: https://www.luxyachts.com/crew https://www.luxyachts.com/crew
    - fzzzy 10y ago
      For someone who wants to see the world, that seems like a really interesting life.
- st3v3r 10y ago
  If you're not going to take the discussion seriously, then don't bother to comment at all.
michaelbuddy 10y ago
Library card.
Hydraulix989 10y ago
One of my favorite quotes from the movie Good Will Hunting: "See, the sad thing about a guy like you is, in 50 years you're gonna start doin' some thinkin' on your own and you're going to come up with the fact that ... you dropped 150 grand on a fuckin' education you could have got for a dollar fifty in late charges at the public library!" It's not the actual learning itself that's expensive; it's the credentials.
ourmandave 10y ago
I know several people who have degrees that have no relation to their current "day job". Maybe it's just having the sheepskin that matters most.
zanny 10y ago
You can do this right now. There are various social media groups, even local ones, about specific subjects and areas of study. You can get all the same textbooks any given college professor writes in the syllabus, you can watch recorded lectures on every chapter, and you can discuss the material with like minded knowledge seekers. The Internet era effectively invalidates structured schooling education for the vast majority of people who do not require the rigored environment such institutions impart. For most people, reading books, watching lectures, and discussing with fellow students of the discipline (or even experts) in social media is more than sufficient to acquire a knowledge of desirable fields of study. The only difference is, you don't get a piece of paper after doing it for four years many industries mandate you have to try to use that knowledge professionally. But if you are only in it for fulfillment, you can get that right now, without any state institution subsidizing your living and accommodations to acquire it.
- Fomite 10y ago
  Having encountered some of these people in my life, their education is often incomplete, and more dangerously, they're often unaware it's incomplete.
wang_li 10y ago
One day I hope to live in a world where every single person in the world can live in Malibu year round... Unfortunately, the world isn't making new land. It's a reality of life that we live in a world of scarcity.
madengr 10y ago
They can; pick up a book.
flukus 10y ago
> but I still hope to one day live in a country where people can pursue education in any subject matter (not just STEM/other money makers) for the pure purpose of educational fulfillment Is there a country in the world where this isn't possible now?

by jonahrd 10y ago

outside1234 10y ago

Let me know when you find the hole in the ground that is shooting money up into the air that enables us to have luxuries like this. Frankly, we have thousands of other problems, highlighted by basic health care, that we should probably prioritize first.

white-flame 10y ago
Note that this is literal in some cases. Norway, being one of the major neo-socialist successes, is also a major oil exporter in the region. They have holes in the ground shooting money up that help enable social programs.
- friendlygrammar 10y ago
  >neo-socialist This isn't a word and Norway isn't socialist.
  - the_watcher 10y ago
    It has a Wikipedia page, a Wiktionary page, and copious references to it by well known publications.
    - friendlygrammar 10y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neosocialism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neosocialism Clearly the two "well known" publications (the most preeminent Marxist journals) listed in that wikipedia article and the fact that the wikipedia article's definition of neo socialism has absolutely nothing to do with Norways economic model point to the fact that the parent comment definitely didn't make up that word out of thin air. Norway is not socialist, neosocialist, or whatever dumb made up "socialism" you people try to come up with. Also something having a wiki page on any website and being used in a couple of journals does not make something a term/word. It only indicates that someone wants it to be a term/word.
      - thatcat 10y ago
        It's interesting that Norway is ranked first on the democracy index, yet most Americans view it's policies as 'socialist'.
        friendlygrammar 10y ago
        The democracy index is bs and most Americans don't even know what the word socialist means. So what is your point because you just stated two completely unrelated facts to what is currently being discussed.
        thatcat 10y ago
        My point was that some core values of democracy (equality and justice) are incorrectly perceived as 'socialist' in current American linguistic usage. If this were corrected, it is much more likely that American's would support a more democratic, Norwegian governance model.
      - the_watcher 10y ago
        Disagreeing with Norway being socialist doesn't make neosocialism not a thing. Not wanting something to be a term doesn't stop it from being one.
  - white-flame 10y ago
    You're correct, and I probably should have had big air quotes or whatever around that term. Upthread is strong with hyperbole from an American perspective, and that "neo-" is just to distinguish having strong governmental social programs/services/safety nets (often caricatured as "socialism" from both the right and the left) from old-school destructive actual Socialism.
- rfrey 10y ago
  Norway does have a higher per capita GDP than the US. (55k vs 52k). But there are many countries with smaller per capita GDPs -- by a much larger difference -- that have solid social programs including free health care and subsidized education. The situation in the US is a political choice, not a consequence of some economic law.
ant6n 10y ago
Fascist countries don't need people with critical thinking skills, STEM I'd the only thing that matters.

stephaniepier 10y ago

Well, and really I think it depends on the person rather than the degree. One of my friends majored in theater, which I'm sure many people see as a useless degree. She paid off her loans and bought a house within 3 years of graduating and owns a successful business teaching voice lessons over skype. On other other hand, I know someone who has a PhD in biochemistry who struggled to find a job for years. It's not fair to say "this degree is bad and this one is good." There are so many other factors.

kamaal 10y ago
Not exactly. If a person knows where they truly stand its easy to make life choices from there on. Many people I know who did engineering with me in India were stuck waiting for a 'dream job' and have gone no where with their lives. People like us knew we had no special skills in engineering to wait for a magical moment of a 'dream job' to arrive and took whatever came our way. Incrementally we worked towards improving ourselves and now have near dream jobs. The more special you think you are, lesser the options you will have. Because you would got used to thinking of many jobs as work beneath you.

gregatragenet3 10y ago

What if I want to pursue an education in driving luxury cars and sailing yachts? Is that a valid subject matter? And if not, what makes it a less valid subject matter than any other degree that costs money but does not have a clear path to recouping the investment? Who decides?

fzzzy 10y ago
I'd like to sign up for "Driving Luxury Cars and Sailing Yachts 101" please. These are vital life skills I require.
- secabeen 10y ago
  Sure, there's plenty of work to be had in the Super-Yacht Crew industry. Don't expect to be home as much, though: https://www.luxyachts.com/crew https://www.luxyachts.com/crew
  - fzzzy 10y ago
    For someone who wants to see the world, that seems like a really interesting life.
st3v3r 10y ago
If you're not going to take the discussion seriously, then don't bother to comment at all.

michaelbuddy 10y ago

Library card.

Hydraulix989 10y ago

One of my favorite quotes from the movie Good Will Hunting: "See, the sad thing about a guy like you is, in 50 years you're gonna start doin' some thinkin' on your own and you're going to come up with the fact that ... you dropped 150 grand on a fuckin' education you could have got for a dollar fifty in late charges at the public library!" It's not the actual learning itself that's expensive; it's the credentials.

ourmandave 10y ago

I know several people who have degrees that have no relation to their current "day job". Maybe it's just having the sheepskin that matters most.

zanny 10y ago

You can do this right now. There are various social media groups, even local ones, about specific subjects and areas of study. You can get all the same textbooks any given college professor writes in the syllabus, you can watch recorded lectures on every chapter, and you can discuss the material with like minded knowledge seekers. The Internet era effectively invalidates structured schooling education for the vast majority of people who do not require the rigored environment such institutions impart. For most people, reading books, watching lectures, and discussing with fellow students of the discipline (or even experts) in social media is more than sufficient to acquire a knowledge of desirable fields of study. The only difference is, you don't get a piece of paper after doing it for four years many industries mandate you have to try to use that knowledge professionally. But if you are only in it for fulfillment, you can get that right now, without any state institution subsidizing your living and accommodations to acquire it.

Fomite 10y ago
Having encountered some of these people in my life, their education is often incomplete, and more dangerously, they're often unaware it's incomplete.

wang_li 10y ago

One day I hope to live in a world where every single person in the world can live in Malibu year round... Unfortunately, the world isn't making new land. It's a reality of life that we live in a world of scarcity.

madengr 10y ago

They can; pick up a book.

flukus 10y ago

> but I still hope to one day live in a country where people can pursue education in any subject matter (not just STEM/other money makers) for the pure purpose of educational fulfillment Is there a country in the world where this isn't possible now?