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> This situation is a dramatic departure from the original immigration spirit of the US which used to welcome creative immigrants with $0 in their pockets dream

by tdfx 10y ago

> This situation is a dramatic departure from the original immigration spirit of the US which used to welcome creative immigrants with $0 in their pockets dreaming of success. I'm not sure this was ever true. A blunt review of historical American attitudes towards immigrants shows they were typically despised and discouraged, and only allowed here at all for the purpose of being exploited as cheap labor for industrial projects.

adrianratnapala 10y ago
Despised and discouraged is one thing, actually kept out is another. And if there is any take-away point to distill from your post, it seems to be that even the cheap-labour kind of immigration works out well.
- sotojuan 10y ago
  Pretty sure a hundred or so years ago laws were passed that literally stopped immigration from different countries (China, Italy, Eastern European countries). So that's happened before.
- phil21 10y ago
  > it seems to be that even the cheap-labour kind of immigration works out well. At least when you have unlimited undeveloped land, and thus a nearly unlimited need for workers to develop it. Developed countries? I'm not convinced.
- tnecniv 10y ago
  It's been a while since I studied the topic, so there may be some holes, but my recollection is that this is not quite true. In the 1800s, laws were passed that produced immigration quotas, where each country was assigned a number of immigrants permitted as a percentage of national origins of current Americans as indicated by the census. This law permitted plenty of immigrants from "favorable" countries like England and France, but few from countries like Italy, Ireland, or China. At the same time, the US saw very few people attempting to immigrate from England and France but large amounts coming from Italy, Ireland, and China. For those immigrants who got in, the attitude towards them is well documented...
- tdfx 10y ago
  Except that we don't need cheap labor immigrants anymore. We just vilify illegal immigrants while allowing the US businesses that exploit their situations to stuff their pockets with money. If anyone was really concerned about illegal immigration you wouldn't build walls or complicated visa structures -- you just eliminate the demand for their labor by enacting harsh penalties on the businesses that exploit them. But it's much easier to vilify the immigrants themselves, so that's what we do.

by tdfx 10y ago

adrianratnapala 10y ago

Despised and discouraged is one thing, actually kept out is another. And if there is any take-away point to distill from your post, it seems to be that even the cheap-labour kind of immigration works out well.

sotojuan 10y ago
Pretty sure a hundred or so years ago laws were passed that literally stopped immigration from different countries (China, Italy, Eastern European countries). So that's happened before.
phil21 10y ago
> it seems to be that even the cheap-labour kind of immigration works out well. At least when you have unlimited undeveloped land, and thus a nearly unlimited need for workers to develop it. Developed countries? I'm not convinced.
tnecniv 10y ago
It's been a while since I studied the topic, so there may be some holes, but my recollection is that this is not quite true. In the 1800s, laws were passed that produced immigration quotas, where each country was assigned a number of immigrants permitted as a percentage of national origins of current Americans as indicated by the census. This law permitted plenty of immigrants from "favorable" countries like England and France, but few from countries like Italy, Ireland, or China. At the same time, the US saw very few people attempting to immigrate from England and France but large amounts coming from Italy, Ireland, and China. For those immigrants who got in, the attitude towards them is well documented...
tdfx 10y ago
Except that we don't need cheap labor immigrants anymore. We just vilify illegal immigrants while allowing the US businesses that exploit their situations to stuff their pockets with money. If anyone was really concerned about illegal immigration you wouldn't build walls or complicated visa structures -- you just eliminate the demand for their labor by enacting harsh penalties on the businesses that exploit them. But it's much easier to vilify the immigrants themselves, so that's what we do.