5 ms·

>I had reasoned this out in my mind; there was one of two things I had a right to, liberty, or death; if I could not have one, I would have the other; for no ma

>I had reasoned this out in my mind; there was one of two things I had a right to, liberty, or death; if I could not have one, I would have the other; for no man should take me alive; -Harriet Tubman

davemel37 10y ago
I couldn't disagree more. Perhaps if I experienced slavery, I would prefer death, but from where I sit now, I would rather be alive than dead, even if it meant not being free. I can't imagine what my grandparents went through in concentration camps, but it seems to me that they did everything they could to survive...and I am grateful for that, otherwise, I wouldn't be here today!
- Myrmornis 10y ago
  Mentioning your grandparents is irrelevant. We don't dislike Israel because it is Jewish or because we have no sympathy for what happened to Jews in the past. We dislike it because it is a nation (nothing to do with jewishness or any religion; a political entity) of educated people with western outlooks and lifestyles which fails spectacularly (they all do, but even more than most) to live up to the moral standards we expect of such nations.
  - davemel37 10y ago
    Huh? I mentioned my grandparents in the context of freedom vs. dying...a very relevant point. I wasnt talking about Israel in that comment nor did I invoke Judaism or the holocaust in its defense anywhere else. However, considering how you went on the defensive to a point that wasnt relevant at all (this post isnt about liking Israel, it is about censorship and the limits of free speech)... It really does beg the question if you dislike Israel for reasons other than the moral standards to invoke from your high horse...I dont know you so I have no opinions about your own prejudices, but I think you should take a hard look in the mirror...if only to be truthful to yourself.
    - vidoc 10y ago
      > It really does beg the question if you dislike Israel for reasons other than the moral standards to invoke from your high horse...I dont know you so I have no opinions about your own prejudices, but I think you should take a hard look in the mirror...if only to be truthful to yourself. Talk about slippery slope! Pulling the ideological taser the way you did is not just libelous, it is intellectually dishonest.
      - davemel37 10y ago
        Huh? All I said is take an honest look at why he felt the need to get defensive. I am of course perplexed how you perceived that as libel, dishonest, and a slippery slope. If you knew me, you would know that I was withholding judgement, just encouraging honest introspection...something I try to do constantly.
        Myrmornis 10y ago
        GP criticized you, as I did, because your comment clearly reveals you to have a paranoid, and delusional, belief that others dislike Israel out of antisemitism.
        davemel37 10y ago
        lol
        Myrmornis 10y ago
        Sorry, I meant westerners. You're laughing presumably because many Arabs dislike Israel out of antisemitism. That's true enough. But I'm referring to the fact that most university-educated people in Europe and America under the age of 40 find the inhumane collective punishment meted out by Israel to be disgusting and unforgivable. It's not due to antisemitism, however much deluded people like you would like to believe it is.
      - davemel37 10y ago

>I had reasoned this out in my mind; there was one of two things I had a right to, liberty, or death; if I could not have one, I would have the other; for no man should take me alive; -Harriet Tubman

davemel37 10y ago

I couldn't disagree more. Perhaps if I experienced slavery, I would prefer death, but from where I sit now, I would rather be alive than dead, even if it meant not being free. I can't imagine what my grandparents went through in concentration camps, but it seems to me that they did everything they could to survive...and I am grateful for that, otherwise, I wouldn't be here today!

Myrmornis 10y ago
Mentioning your grandparents is irrelevant. We don't dislike Israel because it is Jewish or because we have no sympathy for what happened to Jews in the past. We dislike it because it is a nation (nothing to do with jewishness or any religion; a political entity) of educated people with western outlooks and lifestyles which fails spectacularly (they all do, but even more than most) to live up to the moral standards we expect of such nations.
- davemel37 10y ago
  Huh? I mentioned my grandparents in the context of freedom vs. dying...a very relevant point. I wasnt talking about Israel in that comment nor did I invoke Judaism or the holocaust in its defense anywhere else. However, considering how you went on the defensive to a point that wasnt relevant at all (this post isnt about liking Israel, it is about censorship and the limits of free speech)... It really does beg the question if you dislike Israel for reasons other than the moral standards to invoke from your high horse...I dont know you so I have no opinions about your own prejudices, but I think you should take a hard look in the mirror...if only to be truthful to yourself.
  - vidoc 10y ago
    > It really does beg the question if you dislike Israel for reasons other than the moral standards to invoke from your high horse...I dont know you so I have no opinions about your own prejudices, but I think you should take a hard look in the mirror...if only to be truthful to yourself. Talk about slippery slope! Pulling the ideological taser the way you did is not just libelous, it is intellectually dishonest.
    - davemel37 10y ago
      Huh? All I said is take an honest look at why he felt the need to get defensive. I am of course perplexed how you perceived that as libel, dishonest, and a slippery slope. If you knew me, you would know that I was withholding judgement, just encouraging honest introspection...something I try to do constantly.
      - Myrmornis 10y ago
        GP criticized you, as I did, because your comment clearly reveals you to have a paranoid, and delusional, belief that others dislike Israel out of antisemitism.
        davemel37 10y ago
        lol
        Myrmornis 10y ago
        Sorry, I meant westerners. You're laughing presumably because many Arabs dislike Israel out of antisemitism. That's true enough. But I'm referring to the fact that most university-educated people in Europe and America under the age of 40 find the inhumane collective punishment meted out by Israel to be disgusting and unforgivable. It's not due to antisemitism, however much deluded people like you would like to believe it is.
    - davemel37 10y ago