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sctb 10y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12490501 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12490501 and marked it off-topic.
kirkdouglas 10y ago
> We do not pay H1B's less. According to some people I know (they are all on H1B) typically H1B offer is 10-15% less than average at software big corp such as Microsoft and Google.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- monkeyking123 10y ago
  That may not be completely true. All H1Bs I know make 10-15% more. At some point - we need to accept that US has broken education and health system. And don't have enough talent to fill all the positions. H1B is cheap - is indeed true, but that is not the fundamental problem.
dudul 10y ago
Cost of the paperwork is laughable. It's probably sometimes less than paying a recruiter's commission. Maybe the hiring salary is on par with other engineers, but later on it is easy to never touch this salary since the non-immigrant worker is bound to staying with Google or be deported.
- jogjayr 10y ago
  > since the non-immigrant worker is bound to staying with Google or be deported. Why do people keep repeating this? It's not true. You can totally change employers on an H1 (I've done it twice). It just takes longer; 4 weeks to transfer your visa + 2 weeks notice. Your hypothetical Google H1 has recruiters contacting him/her day and night.
  - conanbatt 10y ago
    I am willing to guess that turn-over rate from immigrant workers is considerably less than the average american, all things considered.
  - dudul 10y ago
    I used to be on a H1B and changed employer 3 times, I'm well aware that it is possible. But having a H1B comes with a stigma, not all companies are willing to get involved with a new petition. And let's burst the myth of the "grace period", it doesn't exist. If you're fired you have literally 24 hours to leave the country. There is no "2 week grace period" to find a new employer. So yes, it is possible to find a new job, but it makes it very difficult to fight back when you're asked to work nights/weekends for example.
- asldjhcakjhc 10y ago
  .
  - dudul 10y ago
    Introducing 65,000 new workers each year, and lobbying to increase, or even lift, this CAP is definitely a way to drive salaries down. Differences in salary are negligible? Well, then let's give a 10% raise to all engineers employed by Google, would that work? It's not just about paying H1Bs less than American workers, it's about keeping salaries low for these very workers as well.
    - davidf18 10y ago
      In economics, Google, Microsoft, Intel, Facebook, Apple have what are called "monopolist rents" a form of "economic rent" which mean because of the nature of their product they get higher profits than they would in an efficient market. A result is that the leadership of these firms are worth tens of billions of dollars in the case of Google (two leaders), Microsoft, Facebook). Instead of sharing the benefit of the "monopolistic rents" the leadership hire H1-B visas and also colluded with each other to keep tech labor rates low. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_Litigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...
davidf18 10y ago
> I have hired at a company like Google and we want to hire the best person period. The law is that the H1-B is supposed to be used in those (rare) cases where there are no Americans that can do the job. Frequently "the best person to do the job" is loaded with subjectivity. But also, it is against the law.

sctb 10y ago

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12490501 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12490501 and marked it off-topic.

kirkdouglas 10y ago

> We do not pay H1B's less. According to some people I know (they are all on H1B) typically H1B offer is 10-15% less than average at software big corp such as Microsoft and Google.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
monkeyking123 10y ago
That may not be completely true. All H1Bs I know make 10-15% more. At some point - we need to accept that US has broken education and health system. And don't have enough talent to fill all the positions. H1B is cheap - is indeed true, but that is not the fundamental problem.

dudul 10y ago

Cost of the paperwork is laughable. It's probably sometimes less than paying a recruiter's commission. Maybe the hiring salary is on par with other engineers, but later on it is easy to never touch this salary since the non-immigrant worker is bound to staying with Google or be deported.

jogjayr 10y ago
> since the non-immigrant worker is bound to staying with Google or be deported. Why do people keep repeating this? It's not true. You can totally change employers on an H1 (I've done it twice). It just takes longer; 4 weeks to transfer your visa + 2 weeks notice. Your hypothetical Google H1 has recruiters contacting him/her day and night.
- conanbatt 10y ago
  I am willing to guess that turn-over rate from immigrant workers is considerably less than the average american, all things considered.
- dudul 10y ago
  I used to be on a H1B and changed employer 3 times, I'm well aware that it is possible. But having a H1B comes with a stigma, not all companies are willing to get involved with a new petition. And let's burst the myth of the "grace period", it doesn't exist. If you're fired you have literally 24 hours to leave the country. There is no "2 week grace period" to find a new employer. So yes, it is possible to find a new job, but it makes it very difficult to fight back when you're asked to work nights/weekends for example.
asldjhcakjhc 10y ago
.
- dudul 10y ago
  Introducing 65,000 new workers each year, and lobbying to increase, or even lift, this CAP is definitely a way to drive salaries down. Differences in salary are negligible? Well, then let's give a 10% raise to all engineers employed by Google, would that work? It's not just about paying H1Bs less than American workers, it's about keeping salaries low for these very workers as well.
  - davidf18 10y ago
    In economics, Google, Microsoft, Intel, Facebook, Apple have what are called "monopolist rents" a form of "economic rent" which mean because of the nature of their product they get higher profits than they would in an efficient market. A result is that the leadership of these firms are worth tens of billions of dollars in the case of Google (two leaders), Microsoft, Facebook). Instead of sharing the benefit of the "monopolistic rents" the leadership hire H1-B visas and also colluded with each other to keep tech labor rates low. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_Litigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...

davidf18 10y ago

> I have hired at a company like Google and we want to hire the best person period. The law is that the H1-B is supposed to be used in those (rare) cases where there are no Americans that can do the job. Frequently "the best person to do the job" is loaded with subjectivity. But also, it is against the law.